SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion

OneManjiArmy said:
Talks and rumors about a balance patch run across this forum.

I am wondering, fellow yoshis, what change do you want to see for yoshimitsu for the following patch?

You can be as specific (frame data) or just be straightforward.
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Fix whiffing issues against Aeon and in general (aka 22B is broken as fuck please fix).
 
After some discussion with some peeps of mine, I can't say the BEs and the step catchers are that strong. Range is a problem, but I'll leave this as a minor for now.

Just my scrubby opinion.
 
44A Is a pretty good step-killer. If only it had the same range as Mitsu's 44A, then Yoshi would have a pretty good long-range option + Step killer.
 
OneManjiArmy said:
44A Is a pretty good step-killer. If only it had the same range as Mitsu's 44A, then Yoshi would have a pretty good long-range option + Step killer.
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It's a decent backstep get-off-me move. It also has a step-in deathcopter tech trap-- that doesn't work nearly as well as 3B > a:B+K.
 
My oh my Yoshi SA is pretty quiet. Anyways, I hardly ever use 44A as much. I should try it every once in a awhile.....though I prefer to play the space dance game ^^;
 
mkl said:
It's a decent backstep get-off-me move. It also has a step-in deathcopter tech trap-- that doesn't work nearly as well as 3B > a:B+K.
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Damn, I din't know that. It feels like it has to take -20000 frames to start up and to finish which is why I never bothered to experiment with it.

And yeah, Yoshi SA is dying T.T
 
The wiki appears to be incorrect on the block values of Flea [K] and Ind A. I was able to punish Flea [K] with Aeon 66B (i23) and Ind A with WR B (i21).
 
yoshimitsue`s A:BK dosenet trigger

why is this? is my game broken is there any thing i can do 2 fix it ? plz some one i really need help this is my favorite char and one of his main moves for combos! T_T plz help
 
ecz said:
yoshimitsue`s A:BK dosenet trigger

why is this? is my game broken is there any thing i can do 2 fix it ? plz some one i really need help this is my favorite char and one of his main moves for combos! T_T plz help
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They've made it a lot more harder to do as some have said already. You can try changing the shoulder buttons to make it easier to do.

Like assign RT or R2 with B+K and have RB or R1 as A. Then, all you have to do is slide your finger from R1 or RB to RT or R2.

Another way which is quite harder is to manually slide A to B+K using the palm of your thumb. I do this method a lot because I have my shoulder buttons mapped for my own personal reasons.


The final way is by stick. I don't know the specifics of how they map it, but it helps you do aB+K a lot more consistently. However if stick isn't your cup of tea, you always fall back to the first 2 options I've just said.


Anyways, if you still have any questions feel free to ask here. I'll do my best to answer it.
 
The following characters have either very limited or no ways of hitting Yoshimitsu out of SDGF:
aPat: agB only
Ezio: LOL NONE
Maxi: LOL NONE
Voldo: LOL NONE
Leixia: LOL NONE Edit: 8B supposedly hits, but I haven't been able to get it to hit when I test it.
Viola: Only Set 2[A+B]?
 
I'm noticing in my play that all I do is spam MCF with not much reason (often getting a failed MCF input) and I usually get punished hard for my carelessness. I am generally able to do 6/10 MCFs with probably only 1 or 2 actually hitting throughout the entire match.
I usually do most of my MCFs at frame advantage from hit, but the good players almost never go on the offensive after being hit.

When do you guys strike out an MCF? How do you guys adapt if your opponent isn't falling for the counter-hit fishing?

Also, how do you adapt when your opponent has an intense offense or an incredibly strong defense (or both like many of the players at 8wayrun?). My turtle-esque playstyle and love for MCF spamming is what I think is getting me crushed and humiliated. I struggle really hard against skilled opponents and I'd really like to know how you guys overcome difficulty (other than facing skilled opponents, I already do that).
 
Defiance-K said:
I'm noticing in my play that all I do is spam MCF with not much reason (often getting a failed MCF input) and I usually get punished hard for my carelessness. I am generally able to do 6/10 MCFs with probably only 1 or 2 actually hitting throughout the entire match.
I usually do most of my MCFs at frame advantage from hit, but the good players almost never go on the offensive after being hit.

When do you guys strike out an MCF? How do you guys adapt if your opponent isn't falling for the counter-hit fishing?

Also, how do you adapt when your opponent has an intense offense or an incredibly strong defense (or both like many of the players at 8wayrun?). My turtle-esque playstyle and love for MCF spamming is what I think is getting me crushed and humiliated. I struggle really hard against skilled opponents and I'd really like to know how you guys overcome difficulty (other than facing skilled opponents, I already do that).
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I only iMCF when I know the opponent will retaliate after their failed attack. I know this because I generally size out the opponent in the first round. For example, does he like to strike back after I attack, or does he like to sidestep, etc. Sometimes I throw it randomly too, its not that unsafe, and it reminds the opponent that you are dangerous up close.
As for your MCF inputs, any Yoshi player will say just to keep at it! You will get consistent with it! :)

Also, for lulz and kicks, I also sometimes pull out an iMCF during a taunt. People LOVE to fall for that, I get a CH iMCF and a good followup combo.

As for your turtle-style, I personally would not recommend really turtling with Yoshi. IMO he feels more of a "In your face" character with lots of mixup options. He is more of an offensive character. In your case, though, never forget about fakes. It can actually win matches!

For example: Faking a regular standing kick almost looks like a grab and sometimes your opponent might duck. Now your in the position to mind-f__k him- follow up with a DFLY mixup and proceed. Usually works. But like I said, try not to turtle too much, you have to keep the pressure with Yoshi- keep it quick and clean with fresh mixups and you'll win more.
 
OneManjiArmy said:
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I only iMCF when I know the opponent will retaliate after their failed attack. I know this because I generally size out the opponent in the first round. For example, does he like to strike back after I attack, or does he like to sidestep, etc. Sometimes I throw it randomly too, its not that unsafe, and it reminds the opponent that you are dangerous up close.
As for your MCF inputs, any Yoshi player will say just to keep at it! You will get consistent with it! :)

Also, for lulz and kicks, I also sometimes pull out an iMCF during a taunt. People LOVE to fall for that, I get a CH iMCF and a good followup combo.

As for your turtle-style, I personally would not recommend really turtling with Yoshi. IMO he feels more of a "In your face" character with lots of mixup options. He is more of an offensive character. In your case, though, never forget about fakes. It can actually win matches!

For example: Faking a regular standing kick almost looks like a grab and sometimes your opponent might duck. Now your in the position to mind-f__k him- follow up with a DFLY mixup and proceed. Usually works. But like I said, try not to turtle too much, you have to keep the pressure with Yoshi- keep it quick and clean with fresh mixups and you'll win more.
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I can't really say that I'm a tricky Yoshi player. I tend to play really (and I mean REALLY) safe. 99% of the time, I'll toss a mindless BB in because it's relatively safe. I observed a numerous amount of my defeats in a recent GC get-together and I saw that my play was kinda like this: BB, backstep, BB, backstep, BB, step, BB, etc.

I guess I'll admit that I'm scared to do something even minimally risky, although I'll occasionally spam 3B and BB in vain when I get really nervous and desperate. I hardly ever do DGF stances because I have an inner mentality that says, "DGF will never work on experienced players. They've seen it all, so there's no point."

I also have a kind of silly mindset where I hope that the enemy overthinks everything. Kinda like, "Oh, he's playing Yoshimitsu, he might be very tricky," when I actually play kinda "scrubbishly" and straight-forward. Like for example, when the enemy is at low HP, I'll always run up and do a BB in hopes that they think a bit too hard, but unfortunately it hardly ever works on many players.

I'll try to play more aggressively like you advised. Again, I think I'm just too scared and inexperienced to play aggressively. When I say I'm too scared, I mean that the riskiest move I'll do outside of a punish is 3B in most matches. But thank you for reading my wall of text and giving me advice. It really helps.
 
Defiance-K said:
I usually do most of my MCFs at frame advantage from hit, but the good players almost never go on the offensive after being hit.
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You should be using MCF at small disadvantage, not advantage. When you land a hit as Yoshimitsu they're usually pushed back pretty far and MCF might not even reach them if they attack. The key to using it at disadvantage is knowing how fast your MCF is, how much disadvantage you're at, and whether you'll interrupt the opponent's comparatively slow moves.

How do you guys adapt if your opponent isn't falling for the counter-hit fishing?
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What are they doing instead of attacking? Blocking? Throw them. Moving? iFC3K them.

You know what just read this:

It can be used... pretty much any time! Just throw it out, see what happens. JUST DO IT. Oh, it whiffed? Who cares lol, they can't whiff punish it on reaction. Oh it got blocked? Perfect, you're at -3! That's the ideal time to... DO IT AGAIN. iMCF recovers in crouch, so at -3, your i9 iMCF comes out at i12. That's faster than a standing 2A, and anything faster than that is a high... which will be TC'd. That's right folks, iMCF frame traps into itself.

Against characters who don't even have a fast 2A, -4 to -6 is fair game for iMCF, depending on how slow the character is. -4 is like every time you get hit and -6 is like every they block you. And of course -2 is whenever you 2K them, making the move feel like advantage on hit against every character.

iMCFing a lot forces your opponent into using fast attacks, jump attacks or it forces them to back off.

-Even when your opponent can interrupt an iMCF, it's usually only with a select few moves. It limits their options to only fast, short ranged or unsafe moves. Depends on the character, but whatever it is, you know it's coming, and you can probably either backstep it or block and punish it. Even when your opponent is attacking from a place from where iMCF would surely whiff, attacks extend hitboxes, so iMCF will usually reach if their attack will.

-Against jump attacks, Yoshi has a few really good options. One is a:B+K, which starts the UB setup if it hits someone in the air. Another is 6K, which can easily be confirmed into the second K, which (usually?) can't be air-controlled. This does 99 damage, though 6K is unsafe. One last one is 6B, the fast mid punch, which relaunches high enough to do 6K for 50 something damage.

-If they backstep, they're at the mercy of iFC3K or 2G4KB if they're close enough. If they're not close enough, they've spaced properly. In this case, following them right away puts you in a bad spot if they decide to backstep and poke you. There's no real answer to backstep at (their) advantage except a mixup between dashing in and running a iFC3K-mid mixup. The exception is at -4 or better you can 44:bB, which is i16, and catch a CH on backsteps and convert it into a launch.

So, every time to you land one of these practically risk-free punches on CH, you can either launch into setups or bA for max damage of 69.
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Spacers and You.

Its really tough to fight against a good spacer. 'Cause of that, I'm going back to square one with Yoshi. How do you guys deal with good spacers in general? What moves are best vs. 8WR and spacers? I need a crash course of fundamentals once more.
 
OneManjiArmy said:
Spacers and You.

Its really tough to fight against a good spacer. 'Cause of that, I'm going back to square one with Yoshi. How do you guys deal with good spacers in general? What moves are best vs. 8WR and spacers? I need a crash course of fundamentals once more.
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Signia did a good write up on how Yoshi fares against spacing in the tear list thread from a while ago. Getting in with Yoshi is pretty read-based and can be extremely difficult if you're not sure how the opponent intends on keeping you out.
 
Slade said:
Signia did a good write up on how Yoshi fares against spacing in the tear list thread from a while ago. Getting in with Yoshi is pretty read-based and can be extremely difficult if you're not sure how the opponent intends on keeping you out.
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I should really just make a full-fledged guide out of that and some of my other posts... maybe I'll model it after your Aeon guide :)
 
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