SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion

[TwoSwords]

If you like this follow up after 1K I would suggest you pay close attention to air controls. If they aren't air controlling you can get SDGF A+K off the hard knockdown. That's if you are willing to risk a little bit of health for the chance to score big damage. This set up catches people if they wake up off the hard Knd and if they front or back roll. Side rolls will get by this as well if they start their roll too late. For this to actually connect you have keep holding 4 during the a8 and SDGF A+K. People who don't air control have roll left or right at right time to avoid this with the chance of SDGF A+K doing more if they fail the opopportunity to side roll. Sleeping will reduce the damage if decide to do so. If you want to test the people with some jank go for it. You could also could try out stance mix ups if you want after 8a. For me I rather stick you my guns with the 1K, G, a:B+K, 2(A+B)6(6) combo its too good to pass up to me.

 

[BloodyTigerRoar]

After 1K, G, a:B+K I pause for a sec & then Deathcopter 66A+B them when they're on wake up. For some reason no one seems to deal with it properly. Maybe cuz they're face down after a:B+K?

 

[TwoSwords]

Death copter connects differently when the downed opponents head is aimed at your feet. I put a list somewhere within the Yoshimitsu SA on how you can get death copter off FC 3K. Since FC 3K leave them with their head aimed at you it should work the same. Anyway, you're better off going for death copter after 1K cause 1K, a:B+K into death copter is easy to escape.

 

[BloodyTigerRoar]

Death copter connects differently when the downed opponents head is aimed at your feet. I put a list somewhere within the Yoshimitsu SA on how you can get death copter off FC 3K. Since FC 3K leave them with their head aimed at you it should work the same. Anyway, you're better off going for death copter after 1K cause 1K, a:B+K into death copter is easy to escape.

Huh, well people don't often escape in my experience. Maybe because it's not a common mix-up, so they just don't expect it...

 

[TwoSwords]

If they keep falling for it abuse this I guess. I just rather use 2(A+B) 6(6) cause of good damaging combo and the opportunities walls and ring outs due to distance they travel which is insanely far. You could also mix death copter up with CE to get them to tech roll. This is especially good on characters like cervy, astaroth, maxi or and any other character that gets caught by Yoshimitsu's CE from all techs. Since they will be touching distance with you wouldn't have to worry about dashing in for the CE tech trap compared to the 3B launcher.

 

[BloodyTigerRoar]

Yup yup.

That CE push-back to the wall tip you gave me has come in handy to.

I used to do it whenever they were flashing red but now I bait them so there back is where I want it.

 

[Signia]

After 1K, G, a:B+K I pause for a sec & then Deathcopter 66A+B them when they're on wake up. For some reason no one seems to deal with it properly. Maybe cuz they're face down after a:B+K?

Deathcopter is a great idea after a:B+K, but it's slightly worse than front-turned. The reason is that the guaranteed option, 2(A+B)6(6) is stronger than normal, so attempting extra non-guaranteed damage is comparatively not as good. 66A+B also tech traps more consistently on left techs as well as forward and back.

Also, you're so close to them that they can forward tech under on reaction or sidestep it depending on the timing of the delay. To make it harder to judge what to do, you should take big step back immediately after hitting a:B+K and before doing the deathcopter. Of course, if they don't know how to escape it at all, go for it every time.

iFC3K into DC doesn't really work. You can stand up and step it. If it's working though, keep doing it, though you might as well DC for every knockdown at that point.

 

[TwoSwords]

I started delaying CE after the 1K, a:B+K while my opponent is red lately. Since CE breaks guard pretty much every when they are red I try to them to force block to get wall combos and ring outs. This is pretty good if you have the meter to CE or you don't want rely on stone fist for ring outs. If you catch them rolling that's just free 110 damage.
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@Signia

What do you think about 11_44_77 A into death copter ? I've seen a few Yoshis do this and seemed like it worked pretty well.

 

[Signia]

What do you think about 11_44_77 A into death copter ? I've seen a few Yoshis do this and seemed like it worked pretty well.

Isn't there a lot of ways to get out of that one? I haven't played in a while but it never worked against good players when I did it. Seems like you can always tech and move away no problem. But as always, if your opponent doesn't know how to sidestep, go for it I guess.

You might be able to run a tech/no-tech mixup if you use the move a lot, though. I'm pretty sure FC 3K catches all techs here, with the right timing.

 

[GeneralMordin]

For a new SC5 Yoshimitsu player, should I just grind endlessly in Practice mode trying to get iMCF and a:B+K down, or should I just try to ease myself into the character with his other moves? I just feel like I absolutely have to get those two moves down, in order to effectively play the character.

Also as far as stances go, any particular stances I should try to avoid using a lot?

Finally, one last question as a SC2 Yoshimitsu player: Does Suicide win you the round, even if you end up dying from it? I know it does this in SC2, which made it actually viable in that game.

In other news, I really miss his SC2 1AAA, in this game...

 

[mkl]

For a new SC5 Yoshimitsu player, should I just grind endlessly in Practice mode trying to get iMCF and a:B+K down, or should I just try to ease myself into the character with his other moves? I just feel like I absolutely have to get those two moves down, in order to effectively play the character.

Also as far as stances go, any particular stances I should try to avoid using a lot?

Finally, one last question as a SC2 Yoshimitsu player: Does Suicide win you the round, even if you end up dying from it? I know it does this in SC2, which made it actually viable in that game.

In other news, I really miss his SC2 1AAA, in this game...

1. Get used to how he plays in general before enduring the hopeless struggle with iMCF/Earslicer. They're great moves but you need to command the other good stuff before you add those on.

2. Dragonfly is useful if your opponent shows he cannot react to that 50/50, which is pretty common to be honest. Great 50/50 option to use when your opponent's back is to the ring edge. Even if they block it, it's worth a shot. Good opponents won't be getting cheesed out by it though so beware. Flea is good for tech jumping shit and punishing, and thus ends up being one of his more utilitarian/good stances. Super Dragonfly is fairly useless but barely anyone knows how to appropriately deal with that either so go ahead and get mileage out of it. Meditation is 99.4% useless since even scrubs know how to deal with that by now. The 0.6% usefulness is a strange low round ender in 6A+BK which can be accessed from 44B+K2B+K for a fluid and very hard to catch round ender.

3. Suicide nets you a double KO if both you and your opponent can't sustain the damage. This can be AOK if you're up on rounds and it cliches the game. If you have more life than it takes and it kills your opponent, icing on the cake.

4. You can still use 1A's series in a similarly janky way in this game, it's just not as cheesily good.

 

[BoomSouljah]

does anyone use the drgn fly cancel into if3k or 4k mixup, or is that just me? cause instantly after u cancel drgnfly stance you are technically in full crouch even though you are standing.

 

[TwoSwords]

does anyone use the drgn fly cancel into if3k or 4k mixup, or is that just me? cause instantly after u cancel drgnfly stance you are technically in full crouch even though you are standing.

I haven't but I'll try this out on some people. I've been doing FC 3K into RCC B+K though. It's really difficult for the more part once you get it down its pretty good. I don't know about you Boom but one thing I love with Yoshimitsu is Flea stance. Flea stance equals winning and style points ! xD

 

[FenrisZero]

does anyone use the drgn fly cancel into if3k or 4k mixup, or is that just me? cause instantly after u cancel drgnfly stance you are technically in full crouch even though you are standing.

Please Try It. I Dare You.

 

[BoomSouljah]

I haven't but I'll try this out on some people. I've been doing FC 3K into RCC B+K though. It's really difficult for the more part once you get it down its pretty good. I don't know about you Boom but one thing I love with Yoshimitsu is Flea stance. Flea stance equals winning and style points ! xD

It all depends on where you place the mixup at. I've done it at higher levels of play, just about conditioning your opponent. And yes, flea stance is actually really solid. I've been using it more and more.

Please Try It. I Dare You.

challenge accepted

 

[Signia]

It all depends on where you place the mixup at. I've done it at higher levels of play, just about conditioning your opponent. And yes, flea stance is actually really solid. I've been using it more and more.

challenge accepted

The thing I don't like about this is you're telling your opponent "hey I'm going to mix you up now" and once you've done that, they're now equally capable of choosing ducking or standing, and iFC3K/4K is really bad risk/reward if they're ready for it.

You can kinda mentally pressure them the threat of DGF options, and that can make it hard for them to adjust their thinking when you cancel and do a different mixup, but that requires you to actually use DGF options, which can get you hurt or just be a waste. That just makes me question whether its worth doing the cancel at all, because there seems to be no reason not to just do iFC3K or 4K (or a better mid) without any warning.

For a new SC5 Yoshimitsu player, should I just grind endlessly in Practice mode trying to get iMCF and a:B+K down, or should I just try to ease myself into the character with his other moves? I just feel like I absolutely have to get those two moves down, in order to effectively play the character.

Also as far as stances go, any particular stances I should try to avoid using a lot?

Finally, one last question as a SC2 Yoshimitsu player: Does Suicide win you the round, even if you end up dying from it? I know it does this in SC2, which made it actually viable in that game.

In other news, I really miss his SC2 1AAA, in this game...

If you really want to learn those moves, practice every day for like a week for 20 minutes just doing those two moves, and practicing doing things into and out of them. You can't buffer them, so to get the most out of them, you need to know the exact timing of recoveries. Then just learn it by playing the game and practicing between rounds.

The stances are just ok. Good players will have strong responses to them, and you need to be creative in order shake things up.

2B+K stance is often beaten with a backstep or counter-attack at the timing of the teleport, and to shake things up you can heal to bait them and carefully time a 6A+BK (penguin slide) or do an IND move.

For 8B+K stance, good players can duck and react to the mid, and you can mess with them by stance cancelling and taking advantage of the passivity of their option coverage.

For SDGF, they can just step and react to everything, but delaying or doing A+B movement can mess with their step timing, and weird options like SDGF B+K or G can put them in unfamiliar territory.

B+K stance is decent since it's safe and causes a lot of guard damage, but it also doesn't have much of a mixup, since the lows are punishable even on hit. Just hopping toward them once and hopping straight up a few times is actually kind of hard to stop and does good damage on hit, with the combo being: hop on them again, 6(6). Hop into the stance B is also a frame trap. Stance-cancelling after landing and mixing up is pretty good too. Though hops could be stepped, or GI'd if they have good reactions, but that hasn't happened to me yet. Transition to it with 2(A+B). Another use is just doing B+K in response to a mid/throw mixup, if they throw do the FLE K ~DGF A+B combo, which does damage in the low 80s. Even if they do a mid, you're in the air so you (usually) can't get launched.

Suicide is still really good. Other than causing a double KO when you're about to lose a round, you can also win any round if you have a big enough lead. When you're 2-1 or better you can also win the match with a double-KO. This isn't SCII so people won't be stepping all the time. Get them to think about mixups and this move is guaranteed to hit.

 

[rudeb0y]

I personally like dgf stance cancel A... And probably dont use it enough. Its not bad on block.. And 66 b+k beats most bb retaliation with counter hit dnk combo. I've actually rung people out with this when near the edge as its not something people tend to be prepared for. Its also really good for step whiff (using normal cancel for safety) and even some back-step bA setups if you can recognise them. You can also setup 66b+k like this off a blocked 6a though its not as consistent IMO.

I don't know if its the same for you other yoshis but my game lately has evolved into Max poke/whiff and jg pressure. If i'm not attacking.. I'm losing. Having experimented for awhile by giving up some damage for guard pressure.. Its def not worth giving up.. For example, fc3k rcc 3b for a force block unless you have the significant life advantage and/or they are red. Maybe after 3b 6 a:b+k dnk it is worth it as 2k scales to like 3 DMG.

That said, the force block does get people to stand after fc3k.. And suicide is winning a lot here now as well. Great to come back off one knockdown into that ftw. Also cancel 66A+b into rainbow throw/mid is good here if you're using it well. Mixups are only as good as you are training people to react.. So abuse the shit out of your safest ones I say and throw your others out maybe 5-10% (dgf b, dgf k springs to mind..)

 

[BloodyTigerRoar]

"Mixups are only as good as you are training people to react..

I like the way that sounds...

 

[hAppY]

In DGF don't forget the B who can use to broke guard and keep the pressing DGF B is -4 .

 

[mkl]

We should make a note of all air moves that are GIable on reaction since that leads to guaranteed 6KK (usually). 100 damage is pretty nice and shouldn't be ignored. Xiba 33KB is a must and 8B+K from the Pyrrhas are near musts since those moves can be mildly annoying otherwise.

EDIT: Air GIs reduce 6KK's damage to 66. It seems like it is his most damaging post air GI combo though even with the massive reduction in damage. Still good to know that if you hit 6K against a jumper/tech jumper you can confirm the second K with good reactions for 100 damage which is pretty damn good to counter people trying to mess with iMCF.

In DGF don't forget the B who can use to broke guard and keep the pressing DGF B is -4 .

We love you hAppY.