Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Now with all those good things being said about sieg, what do you guys think about the GI part of the game. I always though what made sieg a contender was the players ability to GI close range opponents, put the opponent on defense mode, then back to the range game. Now that GI cost meter, there will def be much less GI opportunites available unless you do not plan on using BE or supers, which case make him less of a threat. Get that block game up fellas and get that spacing just right cuz now that ralph looks good and of course the siblings, we need something to keep them out of our face.
I'm cool with the new GI costing meter, because if I GI vs a rival who has no meter for Re-GI, its free punish possibly with 1B or whatever else is best damage for the frame opening. Also I'm very thankful that B+K's SBH'GI now works like it should have since SC3, on input!! In SC4, even with gap & late active GI frames I still manage to B+K successfully often, now in SC5 I'm gonna get 99% reward or punish for my "counter-mix-up" decisions & not by old game's flaws.
Spacing seems even to me, now Sig can backpedal faster with more length per step, I think it could have been a trade-off for removing SSH'A+B, lets see how it works out.
I'm glad that I'll be able to low-GI from full-crouch, since the new GI input is 4A+B+K & repels HML. I didn't liked not being able to 3G or 1G low GI from FC in SC4.
 
Man I can't believe they took out SCH A+B, SSH A+B and SRSH A+B. That just seems shitty to me; SSH A+B was a great attack if you got turned around and i loved the 3B SCH A+B follow up, and whats the point of SRSH [K] if you can't follow up with SRSH A+B?
 
Man I can't believe they took out SCH A+B, SSH A+B and SRSH A+B. That just seems shitty to me; SSH A+B was a great attack if you got turned around and i loved the 3B SCH A+B follow up, and whats the point of SRSH [K] if you can't follow up with SRSH A+B?

SCH A+B and SSH A+B will be missed, certainly. However, SRSH has been retooled a bit - the mixup between SRSH B and SRSH K is now extremely powerful because both guarantee his Critical Edge. Without meter, SRSH B still has the same combos, and SRSH (K) now gives you a guaranteed SBH B on hit.

EDIT: Quick notes. If you have more to say, don't double post, just edit like I'm doing now. And for hold moves, use () instead of [], since brackets are used for coding stuff.
 
SCH A+B and SSH A+B will be missed, certainly. However, SRSH has been retooled a bit - the mixup between SRSH B and SRSH K is now extremely powerful because both guarantee his Critical Edge. Without meter, SRSH B still has the same combos, and SRSH (K) now gives you a guaranteed SBH B on hit.

EDIT: Quick notes. If you have more to say, don't double post, just edit like I'm doing now. And for hold moves, use () instead of [], since brackets are used for coding stuff.
Okay my bad; I welcome your constructive critisism
 
Did you try RCCing first?
Nah.. That's kinda in-depth crap to me, & by in-depth crap I mean that it hasn't being that necessary enough for me to actually practice it. In fact, who does RCC in SC4 anyway? I haven't seen it in videos & definitely not online. (btw, I do RCC in Tekken)

I'm just saying; Namco should have had done 3G & 1G available from FC as basic as pressing 3G or 1G from FC, that's all. Not a hard thing to do, it just need to able the input during crouching frames just like it has always been able from neutral or idle frames.

But anyway, that's past now. I welcome SC5 news & changes, is good to have a different game than a mere update-re-sale of the same game.

Soul Blade, Soul Calibur 2, SC4, & now SC5 are different games. n_n
 

Yeah that's true I'm just saying you can do whatever you want if you RCC. Who uses RCC? Idk, I do, but there certainly is use for it. Ever wanted to do a standing move after a spaced Siegfried 2A, like B6, 3A, standing A, or a+ka2A? Some moves annoyingly leave you in crouch, like Yoshi iMCF or Raph 1A, and every CH 2K or 2A, I always RCC out of those. You should never feel limited just because you're in FC.
 
Yeah that's true I'm just saying you can do whatever you want if you RCC. Who uses RCC? Idk, I do, but there certainly is use for it. Ever wanted to do a standing move after a spaced Siegfried 2A, like B6, 3A, standing A, or a+ka2A? Some moves annoyingly leave you in crouch, like Yoshi iMCF or Raph 1A, and every CH 2K or 2A, I always RCC out of those. You should never feel limited just because you're in FC.
No, I actually have not thought of those nice ideas of yours, hmm.. all that from a spaced 2A.. mmm tasty :P Heheh, thank Signia n_n. Now I'm gonna definitely sharp-up that RCC for SC5!
If possible by frames in SC5, looping B6s with 2As using RCC could be sick, like b6 2A rcc b6 2A rcc b6 b6 2A rcc b6 & even 2A rcc 2A rcc 2A for the lol of it n_n
 
keep in mind the recovery from 2A isnt the greatest, I have never been too much of a fan of RCC cuz IMO Sieg has decent options from FC but once again thats just me. Alot of effort and wasted frames (depending on how good you are at it) for a poke.
 
And I'm back for my pesky and unending search for knowledge WALL OF TEXT UPON YE!!!

I decided that I should retool my tactics by playing the AI on Edgemaster difficulty, but i'm not necessarily sure I trust the A.I. as a measure of how my mind games work out, because either these mind games are actually legit, or A.I. is just plain stupid. Here's what I've decided to do:
At close range, I love to G.I. and grab... Alot of what the A.I. threw at me, I GI'd. I also liked to throw out some moves that... I (being the noob that i am) would consider to be practically useless like SBH A, SSH A and SSH B, 2B and guarding afterwards (I never thought that would work, but it is A.I. we're talking about). I'd set up alot of guessing games like knocking the computer down and making it guess whether I am going to A: use another knockdown low, B: 3B it, C: Grab it or D: stance roulette into some crazy shenanigans like these moves I mentioned before. I liked the freedom of not being bogged down by the concept of lag tactics, so I just let the retarded A.I. have it. I'd set up mind games based around knockdown lows and attacking at disadvantage and when the computer started to duck and block low or guard, I'd either go back to standard Siegfried tactics already discussed here and established at my beginning, or I'd use 3B, 6B, 4B, 1K, 1B (love that move) ww A A, (and often associated mix up but utilizing A 22...admittingly random moves that often proved successful depending on the situation. whenever it got close again, I'd use 6B and 3B to interrupt strings and start going crazy. And, I mean I was going crazy. Just random stuff... out of the blue in defending attack strings I'd plop down in SBH to parry the computer (I didn't even know you could do that) and sometimes, I'd just press a button and hope for the best. (What's weird is that it worked!) I THINK I'm getting to a place where I'm comfortable with Siegfried and like what I do to Music Theory, I make it work by using standard accepted conceptual, but with my Tritone, dissonant nature and in using weird methods to get my desired effect, or my particular style...

What concerns me here is that I'm working with A.I., and whilst working with A.I. there are often pitfalls like playing online because certain important thought processes that people enjoy, computers simply don't; like how the lag effects one's playing ability. There is also the fact that people dont like you to attack on disadvantage or use KD lows, but there SEEM to be ways you can use these and be successful. Granted, these arent what a player should be based off of, but why limit yourself in terms of tactic?

What's your point, guitar guy?
What am I asking here? I'm glad you asked.
What should I be careful of, practicing with A.I.? What stuff works with the A.I. that wouldnt necessarily work with an intelligent player? Am I heading in the wrong direction, or perhaps am I breaking ground as a player and their style? I am aware that It would be wise I play some offline games with people to really get an idea (I plan on it... trust me) but while there are better Siegfried users and players in general here and so I'd thought I'd utilize the opportunity to ask.
 
well lets get one thing straight: nothing beats playing offline against another person. that being said...

playing an AI:

pros - you can work on your execution well, you learn to adapt, and because the AI likes to step all over the place, you learn to control step.

cons - AI becomes psychic if you use 1 move too many times and will GI things like imcf on reaction among other things a human cannot, their actions are completely random with no relative gameplan to read, and they dont always choose the best course of action for certain situations. in otherwords, they dont play the same as a human player, so while you will learn and refine techniques for yourself, you'll learn nothing about fighting against someone, no matchup knowledge, nothing.

playing online:

pros - (to an extent) you can learn matchups and how mixups and mindgames work. you learn to adapt to these situations as well, and learn how to affect and read the mental state of a human player.

cons - lag distorts results and makes things seem better than they really are, it also inhibits player ability, and causes players to adapt somewhat harmfully in a way that they become much more dependant on theory than they do actual experience. while having strong theory is good, it doesnt really mean much if you can practically apply it. not to mention lag affects every aspect of the game, from blocking to GIing to attacking. even if you arent using lag tactics, there still may be situations where your course of action only works because of lag. such examples of this would be say you do siegfried 66B, but say your opponent eats it after trying to step it because lag made him/her jump instead, or say he/she GI'd too early or late because he/she had to try to compensate for the latency of the connection.

there are also certain things you cant learn, even with a combination of online and AI. u just gotta refine yourself as much as you can so that when you do go offline, you at least have some clue as to what ur doing.
 
VS AI:
I enjoy playing vs AI because it helps me to keep sharp my spot-confirm-react skills. At times when I get "In The Zone", I've been around 8 mins blocking/dodging/GI/countering all of the AIs moves (vs Mitsu, Ivy, X, Raph, Kilik etc..) including 2Ks & 1As.
The AI also does Range Play & serves good to train Tip Range options to counter hit.
To me is best to counter hit & keep as Tip Range as possible when vs AI. It helps to lower the AI's GI tendency when I don't rush vs it, which I dont have to.

VS GM (Grey Mater):
Rushing down on rivals is good just to be ahead on HP, once I have more more HP than my rival even by one pixel, I got no reason to play offense. I like playing out my rival & have all of the three round's time to do so. I like long fights, I'm the least trying to end each round. I like to learn my rivals more than beating on them.

By playing at Range & Countering, I've not just having my fun, I'm also being more practical. If I can survive vs my rival's options, why beating them quick? I'd say: "Let em figure me out, while I have my fun figuring em out" :P heheh.

All of this serves to improve countering skills.

To me, for example pressing 6B+K then B or K vs my rival is no brainer at all. When I know my character's moves, falling for my mix ups is on their part, not mine.

But every time that I spot, confirm & react, (as seeing, blocking/dodging & punishing) is 99% me.

Offense belongs to the character, defense belong to the player.

Also, always remember this: Soul Calibur has never & still doesn't have any kind of 'Time Bonus" points per rounds or matches. So why rush the battle? I'd say to that: just enjoy while learning. Take your time to give time to your rivals & receive time from them.
 
I'm interested in using Siegfried for SCIV and V but I need answers.

How does Siegfried perform against fast characters like Cassandra (Pyrrha in SCV I guess) or Taki/Natsu? Will I be screwed? Which moves do you recommend?
 
Siegfried performs pretty well against most of the cast tbh. hes got a few bad matchups, but mostly this has to do with outspacing him or punishing him for large amounts of damage. against faster characters, most of the matchups are 5-5 with no favour or 4-6 with slight favour to the opponent. keep in mind however that against most of the fastest characters in the game, siegfried has range advantage, and using that advantage can be key to victory.

im writing a guide on things now over in the siegfried SCIV soul arena. its not done yet, but you may find some useful information in there yet: http://8wayrun.com/threads/in-fathers-name-universal-siegfried-training-guide.8685/

the beginners guide that synraii wrote will also likely help you out: http://8wayrun.com/threads/get-ready-siegfried-for-beginners-a-guide.7171/

and if you need anything more soul calibur 4 related at least, you can find it here: http://8wayrun.com/forums/siegfried.23/

but basically when sieg is in close against characters like these, he wants to rely on alot of quick moves such as 3K, 6A, b6, 1K, and on alot of TC's to go under their fast highs, such as 3B or 4K. grabbing alot at this range and mixing them up with mids, such as 1B or 3B, is also invaluable. avoid relying too heavily on stance transitions off normal moves unless on hit, as most of them are punishable or linear. your goal is to get in, strike your opponent hard, and then to back out to the tip of their reach, where in most cases is still a comfortable range for sieg.

at far range, you wanna play the baiting game which can be done through spacing, stepping (22_88A is actually pretty useful here because it can TC some fast highs if used properly), or stepping back with stances. if you must close the distance, things such as step iagA, 66A, step 3A, and sometimes iWR A are good for containing movement. things like 66B or step b6 are good at stifling an opponents attempts at countering your rushdown attempt.
 
Also important to mention I feel is that against faster characters, working the SG game can be invaluable. ag:A/3B abuse at tip, 66B at tip, B6 and SCH B (as 2_8B+K is both a better step than his regular and any step kill will be NH not CH.)
Also try to use 6A if you can to handle rushdown - nobody respects this move enough so it gives KND much more often than you would think. =/
 
Oh, I almost forgot:
If you are lerning Siegfried, you should head into practice and get ag:A down - if you can't do this move to the consistency that you could spam it at will when called upon, you severely limit your Siegfried.
 
Oh, I almost forgot:
If you are lerning Siegfried, you should head into practice and get ag:A down - if you can't do this move to the consistency that you could spam it at will when called upon, you severely limit your Siegfried.

agA suffices just fine. The just frame version is only really useful for combos.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back