Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion

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MKHSpartan

[12] Conqueror
This has to be the worst non meter damage off a launcher in the game. That's depressing. D;
It is... also considering if guarded how well some characters can shut it down yet Cervys is -13 on guard if I remember right with something like 90+ damage of it meterless balance at work there.
 

ChaosK

[13] Hero
I did give your brave edge combo a go I quite like it I am just trying to get my jagA down well so every time I use SCH K BE i keep going for the jagA currently.
Oh its not "my" combo. As i said, one of my sparring siegs uses it.
This has to be the worst non meter damage off a launcher in the game. That's depressing. D;
Stop being so Saltfried :P. Its NH damage is low but his CH damage is pretty good (CH 3(B)~SCH B deals around 80). And despite its NH damage being so low, you have all this BE options on NH to expand the damage. Don't forget that it has longer range than most other chars 3B and is pseudo safe against many chars.
It is... also considering if guarded how well some characters can shut it down yet Cervys is -13 on guard if I remember right with something like 90+ damage of it meterless balance at work there.
Well don't compare anyone to top tiers. Especially cervy is just a little over the top.
It's sad when iagA does more damage than your meterless launcher. Lol
No, that actually shows how good iaga is ;)
 

MKHSpartan

[12] Conqueror
Well don't compare anyone to top tiers. Especially cervy is just a little over the top.

Unfortunately considering top tier charcters are in the game and I do have to fight them I kinda need to compare my tools to them and Cervy does more damage, is safer and faster than Sieg. Plus being Saltfried is so fun.
 

Bastet

[12] Conqueror
@ Solo
Well, it's Manfried... Everything will be on hard mode :P
Lauchers will cause min damage and iagas will be hard to learn lol

@ All
Actually I think iaga's damage is fine at 42. 10 extra damage points for being flashy and cool!

As for me I cannot stick with this move, I dunno why... I can do it (well, I got bad at it lately as I neglected it), but I use it only as one particular combo ender, or sometimes when someone runs towards me ~.~
Most of the time I do 3A ~ 2A+B (yea call me a copycat) against sidesteppers... Bad choice, right?
 

ChaosK

[13] Hero
Well the goal shouldn't be to make all chars as dumb as the top tiers but to get this stuff patched out.
Imo Mitsu and Cervy are the chars most urgently in need of a nerf.
But despite cervy being so strong, i am generally not a friend of comparing your own tools to the tools of chars that are especially strong in that specific area.

For example its pretty dumb when you see people complaining about their chars punishment, solely because the sisters have their i14 stab. This is what makes those chars special and not everyone should have such a tool.

I would at least like 50 damage from a NH 3(B). He's known as a big hitter but packs the punch of a paper cut. Just sayin'. :P
Well you get 50 damage for 3(B)~SCH KK. Unfortunately the second K is easily air techable but maybe PS is kind and makes it a NC with the next patch. Sounds reasonable to me.
 

MKHSpartan

[12] Conqueror
Haha yea they definitely need a nerf Mitsu and Cervy unfortunately they haven't got one yet and it's kinda depressing when they out damage my Zweihander... I agree about not comparing to top tiers but they need to nerf them down so I don't feel so underpowered in comparison.
 

Solo

[14] Master
Well you get 50 damage for 3(B)~SCH KK. Unfortunately the second K is easily air techable but maybe PS is kind and makes it a NC with the next patch. Sounds reasonable to me.
Yes, that would make me feel much better. The only problem I could see is people doing those super long SCH K wall juggles. Those were so funny, just bouncing your opponent along the wall until a RO or a corner where they will die by the knee.
 

hellbottom

それであなたがたは,主の恩恵のどれを嘘と言うのか。
I experimented with that second combo a long time ago, but when i found that he can air control i moved to other things.

Anyway idk if this is known or not, but sieg can do +90 off 3b/wsb with 1 meter under some special conditions.

Combo is 3b/wsb > delay~k(be)(off the ground just like in 22bb combo) into a+b.

Special conditions:

-to be aligned with the opp, like ducking a throw attempt or after a dash. Some punishable moves leaves u perfectly aligned too.

-doesnt work on some stages, like the pirates ship.

-works better on some characters than others:

Nm works sometimes after SSL (only 3b)
Voldo SSL
Algol SSL (only 3b)
Edge m SSL (only 3b)


-doesnt work on: zwei/viola/maxi/ezio


-other than those 4, both 3b or wsb works on all chars with 2 or 3 exceptions where only 3b OR wsb works (forgot who, but one of them is hilde (only wsb)).
 

hellbottom

それであなたがたは,主の恩恵のどれを嘘と言うのか。
Still no opinions? Lame :P

I tried to incorporate the second combo into my game in the past two days and it did pretty well. Imo it fills a little gap for having 100% meter post 3(B) which makes the move even more versatile. Gives you an option for pretty much every amount of meter:

0% meter: 3(B)~SCH K = 39 dmg
50% meter: 3(B)~SCH K BE~iaga = 76 dmg
100% meter: 3(B)~SCH K BE~2(B)~SBH K BE = 96 dmg
150% meter: 3(B)~SCH K BE~CE = 108 dmg

Edit: A little bit more insight about the teching.

3(B)~SCH K BE~2(B)~SBH K BE can only be air teched with: forward left and backward right. When the opponent techs left or backward left, it will only partially connect for 78 damage.

3(B)~SCH K BE~B6~3(B) connecting, doesn't depend on neither range nor ukemi.
However it is a char specific combo and works on specific air teching directions. Out of the ones that i tested, it didnt work on leixia and mitsurugi and it worked against tira and asta
for the following air tech directions: none, forward, forward right, right and backward. It actually covers more than i thought.

with 150% meter, the damage should be 119. (delayed k (be)).

100% is ACable and thats a problem vs regulars, it might catch randoms off guard though.
 

MikeBreezy92

[10] Knight
Haha yea they definitely need a nerf Mitsu and Cervy unfortunately they haven't got one yet and it's kinda depressing when they out damage my Zweihander... I agree about not comparing to top tiers but they need to nerf them down so I don't feel so underpowered in comparison.

They don't need to be nerfed.... you need to get better >_>
 

ChaosK

[13] Hero
Belial made a balance thread for any of you that want to post suggestions for Sieg buffs. Just make sure they're reasonable. We all know Sieg can't be too powerful or the world explodes. I won't be posting there but I will be watching it to see what others think various characters need done to them.

http://8wayrun.com/threads/balance-patch-discussion.13433/#post-483573
Hmm now i wonder if we should make a thread for Patch 1.04 wishlist discussion so we can give a compiled list (posted by a well known member like Sach for example) or if its better if everyone would post their own ideas (so that they can see a lot of people are asking for it)?
 

Solo

[14] Master
Hmm now i wonder if we should make a thread for Patch 1.04 wishlist discussion so we can give a compiled list (posted by a well known member like Sach for example) or if its better if everyone would post their own ideas (so that they can see a lot of people are asking for it)?
I think a complied list with a link to the patch thread would be fine. It wouldn't clog up their thread and it would allow them to see other people complaining about said moves/etc.
 

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
Honestly, as far as balancing him goes, any suggestions I have would involve radical changes to him so he plays more like SC4 Siegfried - I prefer the roulette and stance options he had back then (save SRSH A which was only ever really good in SC3). As he is now, he really don't need any changes if you like his playstyle, and is a good and viable character.

Also, on 3(B) on NH and no meter: I usually just go for the SCH B force block. I don't mind missing out on the damage because SCH B on block is nice.
 

Bastet

[12] Conqueror
I wouldn't change anything on him either right now, just fix some of the whiffs...

But I'm very curious to see what people believe, perhaps suggest stuff that I haven't even thought about, so I'd like a thread like this here.

I think it's safe to say everyone here thinks SCIV Sieg was funner to play anyways. I do think he needs minor tweaks though. Like b4 being decent again (GC in 6 instead of 10).

Honestly I believe SCV Siegfried is much more fun, I only miss a few of SC4's moves, but I got used to it. I loved SC4 Siegfried till I played SCV for a month and got used to the new system. After that I "hated" his SC4 self... I guess it was the speed and some useless moves :P
 

Solo

[14] Master
In my opinion I think he just needs more reward for his risks similar to Nightmare. You have to work too hard to win with Sieg. I know you have to work hard to play him anyways but it's even more uphill than in SCIV to me. All I want is more reward, and tracking on 22BB (since 88BB always hits). His frames are fine to me.
 
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