Spanky
[13] Hero
Inb4 CaS will allow you to put eye shadow on Soul Edge's various eyes in Soul Calibur 7.
Soul Calibur VI: General discussion
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Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Yeah, I mean we all know that, of course. This discussion has been going on here for ages, so no matter how obvious it might be, eventually verybody gets lazy about throwing in the caveats of "Of course, most of these weapon are ridiculous in some way.." or " needless to say, everyone is pretty anime and anachronistic" (actually, in my case, I did point both of those facts out even in this iteration, so neener-neener
).But all of those concessions made, it's a matter of degree and specifics. Yes, Siegfried has a seven foot, half-ton sword, but once you accept the absurd conceit that he is strong enough to wield it, a sword like that is perfectly practical. Yes, Ivy has a whip that obeys her thoughts through magic, and that's unrealistic--but once you accept the conceit that this is a magic-infused world, you can live with it twining about like a snake.
Groh's weapon is something very different. It's not so massive that someone of his body type shouldn't be able to lift it. It's not infused with magic. It's just a sword (sort of). But its a f$%#ing retarded sword. If you were a person in the real world stuck in a life and death struggle, you would absolutely, without question, want half of that thing, rather than the full thing. Half of it is a sword--which didn't evolve early in human history after the development of metallurgy as the go-to melee weapon out of pure chance; it arrived early and stayed through the human epoch until firearms because it gives you a more or less ideal balance of range, maneuverability, range of motion, and leverage. If you had Groh's dumb-ass weapon you would have less of all four of those things, in exchange for no additional benefit, plus your grip is in the center of gravity for the weapon (the absolute worst place for it to be) meaning you can apply the lowest amount of force possible to either blade AND your opponent can constantly knock one blade into your torso by simply striking the other end, because it functions as a lever against your own efforts at parrying or blocking. You would waste so much stamina just trying to keep from being eviscerated by your own weapon, and be at a complete disadvantage in trying to position yourself to be able to thrust OR slash your opponent--in fact, it would be virtually impossible against an equally skilled opponent with a weapon that was identical to yours, but cut in half down the midsection.
Do you understand the distinction I'm making? In a universe where we allow for magic or super strength, most of the Soulcalibur characters' weapons make some degree of sense (not all--there are other dumb ones like Tira's hula-hoop of death and Zwei's sword that he holds with the cross-guard--but most). No one in the real world could use the average Soulcalibur weapon as they are used in these games, but they at least make some sense when it comes to basic newtonian physics/applied mechanics, because most of them are at least based on real world weapons and combat forms/arts, and those real world martial arts evolved to be very efficient in generating force, economizing effort, and giving speed or strength advantages. Groh's weapon and style doesn't make any kind of sense on that level: even in a world with super powers, he should pick a less retarded weapon that works with the pragmatic realities of human biomechanics and basic physics. His weapon and style are pure fantasy and clearly designed by someone who has no background in martial arts or weapons training and no intuitive grasp of human movement. Which is something that I actually felt was the opposite for the early Soulcal characters: it felt like the movelists in the earlier games (bar some oddballs like Voldo and Ivy) were designed by people who understood those things, at least a little. And that they wanted the game to have at least some realistic weight to it, rather than being full-on anime.
It's the same with his character design. Yeah, all SC characters are anachronistic and take some very huge liberties with the clothing of their times and cultures. But Groh uses blue hair dye styled into emo spikes like he is frickin Gerard Way...and a glowing eyepatch...and a super saiyan mode..and a bluetooth cellphone in his glowing eyepatch...and clothing that looks like it comes from Attack on Titan...and he belongs to a transdimensional police force. Do you see what I mean when I say it's a matter of degrees? Yes, Soulcalibur has always had some out-there character design, and plot points, and combat styles. But in the earlier games, the balance was a little more towards the historical than the anime/fantastical. That changed around SCIII and then the process accelerated in each successive game. Now we never get anyone new who feels remotely grounded in reality, even though the real world has countless cultures and weapons that have been untapped in this, the per-eminent weapons-based fighter. Now we just get characters who look like the come from Inuyasha. And wizards who plagarize Noctus' entire aesthetic. That's a shame in my opinion.
So yeah, you have to suspend disbelief and be willing to accept a lot of silliness if you want to stay a Soulcalibur fan and not be weighed down by cognitive dissonance. But Groh doesn't require you to suspend disbelief, he requires you to actively choke off any standard for believability. He's just dumb on every level.
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Ukkesh
[13] Hero
He's malfested. Problem solved.Yeah, I mean we all know that, of course. This discussion has been going on here for ages, so no matter how obvious it might be, eventually verybody gets lazy about throwing in the caveats of "Of course, most of these weapon are ridiculous in some way.." or " needless to say, everyone is pretty anime and anachronistic" (actually, in my case, I did point both of those facts out even in this iteration, so neener-neener
But all of those concessions made, it's a matter of degree and specifics. Yes, Siegfried has a seven foot, half-ton sword, but once you accept the absurd conceit that he is strong enough to wield it, a sword like that is perfectly practical. Yes, Ivy has a whip that obeys here thoughts through magic, and that's unrealistic--but once you accept the conceit that this is a magic-infused world, you can live with it twining about like a snake.
Groh's weapon is something very different. It's not so massive that someone of his body type shouldn't be able to lift it. It's not infused with magic. It's just a sword. But its f$%#ing retarded sword. If you were a person in the real world stuck in a life and death struggle, you would absolutely, without question, want half of that thing, rather than the full thing. Half of it is a sword--which didn't evolve early in human history as the go-to melee weapon out of chance--it gives you a more or less ideal range, maneuverability, range of motion, and leverage. If you had Groh's dumb-ass weapon you would have less of all four of those things, in exchange for no additional benefit, plus your grip is in the center of gravity for the weapon (the absolute worst place for it to be) meaning you can apply the lowest amount of force possible to either blade AND your opponent can constantly knock one blade into your torso by simply striking the other end, because it functions as a lever. You would waste so much stamina just trying to keep from being eviscerated by your own weapon, and trying to position yourself to be able to thrust OR slash your opponent would be virtually impossible against an equally skilled opponent with a weapon that was identical but just half of yours.
Do you understand the distinction I'm making? In a universe where we allow for magic or super strength, most of the Soulcalibur characters' weapons make sense. No one in the real world could use them as they do, but they at least make sense when it comes to basic newtonian physics/applied mechanics. Groh's doesn't: even in a world with super powers, he should pick a less retarded weapon that works the pragmatic realities of human biomechanics and basic physics.
It's the same with his character design. Yay, all SC characters are anachronistic and take some very huge liberties with the clothing of their times and cultures. But Groh uses blue hair dye styled like he is frickin Gerard Way...and a glowing eyepatch...and a super saiyan mode, a bluetooth cellphone in his glowing eyepatch...and clothing that looks like it comes from Attack on Titan...and belongs to a transdimensional police force. Do you see what I mean when I say it's a matter of degrees? Yes, Soulcalibur has always had some out-there character design and plot points and combat styles. But in the earlier games, the balance was a little more towards the historical than the anime/fantastical. That changes around SCIII and then the process accelerated in each successive game. Now we never get anyone who feels remotely grounded in reality, even though the real world has countless cultures and weapons that have been untapped in this, the per-eminent weapons-based fighter. Now we just get characters who look like the come from Inuyasha. That's a shame in my opinion.
So yeah, you have to suspend disbelief and be willing to accept a lot of silliness if you want to stay a Soulcalibur fan and not be weighed down by cognitive dissonance. But Groh doesn't require you to suspend disbelief, he requires you to actively choke off any standard for believability. He's just dumb on every level.
Jokes aside, the dude teleports around like he's straight out of Dragon Ball, just like Cervantes. If we're talking about weapons that do t make sense because of Newtonian laws, then how's about ivy? Her weapon LITERALLY FLIES OFF THE CHAIN it's attached to!
Also Cervantes spins around like a spastic, but the fact that, even assuming that his spinning whilst defying gravity is normal, surely the size difference between Acheron and Nirvana would throw him off axis or at least mess up his trajectory?
If center of balance is an issue for groh, think about how he detaches them so often. Also, like I said, he's malfested, just like a good 11 other characters.
Can we please, as a community, stop bashing the dude's fighting style? Please?
Seriously, Grøh's gameplay is animesque, but it's fantasy based, and he's malfested azwel. Even if his weapon doesn't work scientifically, very few characters do anyway. We could get into arguments about how the physics of weapons and mechanics work, but that's like questioning why Sophie can break someone's shoes, trousers and belt by kicking them at the right moment.
Let's just enjoy the game, people.
LisaK
[14] Master
Remember when Groh is just another loli girl using with a mini bomb and have digimon's glasses...
Crash X
[14] Master
Well, considering how “functional” Cervy’s kit is in the game right now I wouldn’t be surprised if his trajectory with iGDR and DC B was messed up...and had him plummeting off of stages in the process.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Nope. :) Sorry, I'm never going to stop talking about how stylistically lame that character is, and that ridiculous weapon will always be a cornerstone of my objection to him, second only to the fact that he looks like he should be reading slam poetry at a hipster coffee shop...just after having left ComicCon. And yeah, you make some great allusions to other characters, even early characters, who are super physics breaking. But again, it's just a matter of a different type of dumb to me.
And look, I've said this before and I'll repeat it now: some of the shit that we accept without blinking in some of the older characters is just a matter of being so used to it after three or five or seven games: I totally recognize that. So if Groh sticks around, is there a chance that the stupidity in his moveset will all blur into the background for me? Yeah, sure, totally. I have to concede that possibility. But it doesn't change the fact that every new game in the series for the last ten years I hope we'll get another more grounded character with an as-yet unrepresented historical weapon. And what do we get instead? Buck Rogers-style wizards and super-saiyans wielding Darth Maul weapons.
At least in the past for every teleporting demon pirate or dominatrix alchemist we got, we also had a guy fighting with a dadao or a jian or a rapier. That balance is broken now, and Groh is the ultimate symbol of the trend towards more and more anime. I don't think it's a good development in terms of either style or gameplay, so i'm afraid I'm going to be taking a dim view of the situation until it changes and achieves a more reasonable balance between real weapon arts and the fantastical elements. Of course I accept that the fantastical will always be a part of Soulcalibur. I even accept that it will always out balance the realism--by a lot. But scaling back the anime just a little would be very healthy for the series, imo.
That's an interesting question, actually. I mean, it is if, as you say, we accept the goofiness of the premise that he can spin like that to begin with. He could compensate for the difference in the masses and weight distribution of the two weapons by holding the larger one closer to his torso/center of gravity and at an appropriate angle. But depending on how he generates the force for the spin and how much of it there is, he might not even need to, in order to maintain a smooth trajectory over the relatively short distances he travels. It looks to me as if he is making at least several revolutions per second. That means his forward trajectory is significantly stabilized through the conservation of angular momentum: basically, the faster you are spinning around an axis that is aligned along the vector of your forward momentum, the less the imbalances of the mass of the object along that axis will warp your trajectory. It's the same reason that modern firearms have rifling (spiraling grooves) on the interior of the barrel: this adds spin to the projectile so that it flies straighter over longer distances.
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Azul Hurricane
[10] Knight
So.. what are the chances we're seeing a character trailer this weekend?
Klimat
[13] Hero
LOL at people complaying about Groh in a game that features Voldo.
Because running full speed at your enemy on all fours belly up is definitely a reasonable combat strategy or at least a kind of a combat strategy that does not break immersion of the semi-realism of the game, not one bit!
Because running full speed at your enemy on all fours belly up is definitely a reasonable combat strategy or at least a kind of a combat strategy that does not break immersion of the semi-realism of the game, not one bit!
Pyrrus
[14] Master
These are alot of feelings so agree to disagree.
Anyway, I feel hopeful for a trailer
DanteSC3
[14] Master
50%. The 21st is the day to watch, Japan time.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Yeah, but what can I say, Voldo is grandfathered in. Give me seven games with Groh and maybe his nonsense will also feel unremarkable to me. Also, in the same game that we got Voldo, we got Seong-Mina, Mitsurugi, Li Long, Hwang, and Xiangua--who all play a little much more grounded (as Soulcalibur characters go, that is). I'd probably be less annoyed by Groh and Azwel if we'd gotten someone rocking a saber or a meteor hammer with them--particularly if they came from a real world culture rather than anime tropes.
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DanteSC3
[14] Master
SoulCalibur IV introduced a hilariously impractical style of dual wielding a lance and a shortsword, a teleporting sword-spawning bouncy-ball shooting with transformative weaponized internal bone structure style, and later, in the portable port, a literal joke style with hidden blades and magician gags.
And this is to say nothing of Star Wars or God of War.
And this is to say nothing of Star Wars or God of War.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Oh Cassie, what have they done to you? You used to command such respect. Then Project Soul oiled you in fan service and threw you to the freaks at 4chan (or wherever all this SC hentai comes from). I weep for the memory of my badass brawler!
Yeah, that was truly the first SC game where we got no one new who was a grounded fighter with a real historical weapon. :(
Jeromeice
[10] Knight
Fatal_Exodus
[14] Master
I've accepted that no one is allowed to complain about Groh when the first game in the series introduced a zombie ghost pirate possessed by an evil sword.
Crash X
[14] Master
But...but...I love Voldo. :(
But really though, people know what to expect from Voldo at this point. He’s become an iconic character just for how he is. Plus the guy is such a blast to play. The saddest thing about Voldo that design and gameplay wise he appeals to quite a niche crowd. Hence why he has arguably one of the smallest playerbases in the Soulcalibur community.
Ok man, I’m gonna be honest that looks so wrong it’s not even funny.
Jeromeice
[10] Knight
I have to admit , this was a little too much ^^
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
I know. :) Though honestly, I'm a teeny bit nervous about what we'll get. I feel like, with their approach to this game, they will design her more consistent with her SCII/III appearances, rather than the booty-buffoon she was turning into as of Lost Swords. But I won't breath easy on that question until I see her in action. They kinda screwed up Amy in my book, so I'm hoping Cassie hits on all cylinders.I’m waiting for a badass Cassy also . The pic is just for fun .
I'd take a hundred demon pirates over an anime goth whose hair dye colour changes depending on what stage of super-saiyan he is in... It's not even close, how much more of an ill-fit Groh is than any character who came before him. Give me Necrid, Darth Vader, or Kratos any day of the week, before My Malfested Romance.
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Jeromeice
[10] Knight
Yeah , I’m waiting for something solid , well designed and very dynamic
also .
The icing on the cake would be some new inventive throws and moves, something more Sc3 oriented.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
I think you mean her outfit will be inspired by her early appearances while also being a booty-buffoon, to stay consistent with the rest of most of the designs from SoulCalibur VI. It’s not what we (you and I) want, but perhaps the realistic expectation we should have.
Eh? I thought the general consensus seems to agree that Amy’s design was fantastic. I love it too, very elegant and inspired. Aside from her SoulCalibur III 2p (which, admittedly, may just be because of the inability to use it, wanting to and not being able), it may be the best she’s ever been.