Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
But yeah, after that, they stopped trying, for the most part. SoulCalibur IV had you just buy characters straight in creation mode, buy customization pieces, buy everything. There was a shop in SoulCalibur III, sure, and you did end up having to buy a fair amount of stuff, but having alternative means to unlock the stuff felt more special. Having everything just be bought in a store... not so much.
Well, we agree as far as one point there, for sure: the best option if you are going to have unlocks is to use a combination where you cna either unlock kit through particular achievements -or- unlock any given item from the store with currency you gain as you go along, to at least give players some flexability in how they get everything unlocked.

Tower of Lost Souls being the only mode that actually unlocked things directly by any alternative means, I guess was alright, but the lack of incentive to do that, because you could just buy the stuff... devalued things a fair bit too.
The last two times I corrected you on some point of arcane trivia related to the series, you ended up being right, so I'm hesitant to say this, but I think you might be wrong: I think some items you had to unlock throw the tower before ultimately having to buy them with gold too.

SoulCalibur V just had the vast majority of everything tied to your level, and was quite the tedious grind to get to level 99.
Yeah, that's a particularly bad way to approach the problem.

SoulCalibur VI's very few parts to buy with Soul Points just made me question why they bothered locking those to begin with.
Ditto. Though I will say that this discussion probably provides part of the reason: some people are slow to let go of things being done the way they have traditionally been done, and the devs decide to take baby steps instead of upsetting a certain subportion of the consumer base.
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
The last two times I corrected you on some point of arcane trivia related to the series, you ended up being right, so I'm hesitant to say this, but I think you might be wrong: I think some items you had to unlock throw the tower before ultimately having to buy them with gold too.
Well let’s make it three for three! I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of the alternate unlocking method of the Tower that I didn’t mention directly. After getting 30 “honors” (achievements), everything becomes able to be purchased in creation mode, with new things unlocking every 5. If you got it from completing the mission in the Tower, you just unlocked it. No buying involved at all. But a lot of the more tedious missions, some opted to just buy the items instead of doing the missions. If you did complete a mission after already buying the item, you would be rewarded gold instead. But buying the item still guilt tripped you into completing the mission anyway, if you were so inclined to tick all the boxes, because it would still remain unchecked if you took the easy way out.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
No I want a system where people can pick if they want to opt in to such a thing, sounds like a personal problem if you think its offensive in some way or form.
Come on, nobody said "offensive" or anything remotely like it. Pointless? Yes. OCD, definitely. Clumsy, vanity-serving, and a waste of man hours better spent on serving numerous areas already severely under-developed in recent entries. Yup, yup, and yup. But "offensive" is not what were talking about and no one made such a hyperbolic argument.

What I'm suggesting is if your complaining "unlocks are arbitrary" and then also saying a cheat would "deligitmize" unlocks well... I don't know, but to me you sound very silly.
What I'm saying is that most devs are not going to want to program accomplishments that are optional. It's already of dubious value to have this kind of busy work in the game, so the dev has to believe it suits some sort of pacing interest to add it in the first place: if they are confident it is necessary, they wouldn't want it to be optional. Having a two-layered approach that essentially allows the player to decide which approach makes more sense is a tacit admittance on their part that there is a difference of opinion as to whether the feature is necessary, but rather than make a call as the devs one way or another, they're just going to accommodate everybody, rather than judging what suits the game best.

I understand that your argument is "but what harm could it do to leave that down to the player?" And the answer is, some harm, actually. Because every time the devs have to pause to accommodate people who can't get with a given change in the formula it detracts from time spent to develop content to prevent deficiencies in core areas--which, if you haven't been paying attention, is just about every area in the last three entries. As such, as a realistic matter, devs just aren't going to do that for every feature that represents a split in opinion. There's also likely to be a certain amount of perception of professional privelege and a wish that the game conform to their vision: in their eyes, adopting a "you decide" approach may even make them look wishy-washy as to being the arbiters of which experiences in their game should be viewed a essential and what are extraneous. Frankly, its just an awkward and peculiar way to approach design, which is why you never see it. Now, I haven't bought the full version of DoA6 yet, so I will have to take you at your word that they have implemented this system, but it's the first time I've ever heard of the issue being approached in that way.

As for my "self-awareness", its a pretty simple thing with me trying to be considerate as to what a certain side of the playerbase may want, a part of the playerbase you and I both know very well the devs have tried catering to.
Maybe you have a point here, but I just don't think its a critical enough area for most devs to consider it worth the extra work. I think at the point that they were considering making an option to allow people to skip locking content behind accomplishments, they'd just decide to be done with it completely. It just seems like at some point well before crunch time, if not during, the senior development team has a conversation and realizes they could save hundreds of man hours in development and quality control by just not accommodating that option.

Well let’s make it three for three! I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of the alternate unlocking method of the Tower that I didn’t mention directly. After getting 30 “honors” (achievements), everything becomes able to be purchased in creation mode, with new things unlocking every 5. If you got it from completing the mission in the Tower, you just unlocked it. No buying involved at all. But a lot of the more tedious missions, some opted to just buy the items instead of doing the missions. If you did complete a mission after already buying the item, you would be rewarded gold instead. But buying the item still guilt tripped you into completing the mission anyway, if you were so inclined to tick all the boxes, because it would still remain unchecked if you took the easy way out.
Huh, then why do I remember being so vexed by the last two levels of the tower and yet completely unwilling to give up? Was I just trying to pass them to complete the trophy and/or out of a refusal to be beat by the mode? I guess if I don't remember now, I'll never know!
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
Huh, then why do I remember being so vexed by the last two levels of the tower and yet completely unwilling to give up? Was I just trying to pass them to complete the trophy and/or out of a refusal to be beat by the mode? I guess if I don't remember now, I'll never know!
Most likely for the trophy, if you were hellbound to get the platinum, because there was one for finishing all upper floors and one for descending 20 floors (even though descend floors kept giving items until 40, but if the trophy was for that, people would have gone insane). Or you just really wanted to tick all the checkboxes, if you’d already bought everything.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
Most likely for the trophy, if you were hellbound to get the platinum, because there was one for finishing all upper floors and one for descending 20 floors (even though descend floors kept giving items until 40, but if the trophy was for that, people would have gone insane). Or you just really wanted to tick all the checkboxes, if you’d already bought everything.
It could easily be any of those options: I usually care not one wit for trophies and achievements, but I make an exception for SC games, just so anyone checking my play history can see that I am a hardcore SC player at a glance--hopefully facilitating more matches, or at least that was the notion back when I started doing it; I'm not sure it's ever worked out that way. Likewise, back during SCIV and before, I was pretty obsessively completionist in my approach to things, so I may have just not wanted uber Algol to go undefeated. So smug that bot...

Though actually, now that I think about it, I think it was the previous multi-level sequence that was the real bear.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Though actually, now that I think about it, I think it was the previous multi-level sequence that was the real bear.
Yes, the gauntlet of floors 57-59 before Algol himself were notoriously difficult. Algol himself had a hilarious AI problem where you could let him knock you down near the edge of the ring and he would do a somersault flip and ring himself out.
 

Starringrole

[08] Mercenary
@Rusted Blade , do you intentionally take the time to misinterpret things?
Going off you trying to claim I'm doing Mr.Straw man alone, I'll be done with this.

I was pretty clearly trying to express how you're exaggerating going through "hoops", as your implications is players will have to go through such with my my method (or that's how I saw it for the sake of clarity on my end). I was in no way literally saying you're offended, we haven't insulted each other as far as I'm concerned or even literally speaking said something offensive, on my end it was an intentional exaggeration and not really related.

As for this entire thing, I'd say we mostly agree with the exception that you seem to find the feature pointless because its vanity/ocd/manpower/etc which simply I disagree with thinking its well worth it and simple. No one's ever complained about unlocking outfits in other games (though I understand as well that this is a fighter).

My idea is purely suggestion, which is why I said "offended" because it doesn't have to be done, just something along the lines of non intrusive unlocks wont kill anyone. At this point I'm just saying the idea has merit.

No hard feelings though, I actually appreciate your posts.
 
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Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
@Rusted Blade , do you intentionally take the time to misinterpret things?
Going off you trying to claim I'm doing Mr.Straw man alone, I'll be done with this.

I was pretty clearly trying to express how you're exaggerating going through "hoops", as your implications is players will have to go through such with my my method (or that's how I saw it for the sake of clarity on my end). I was in no way literally saying you're offended, we haven't insulted each other as far as I'm concerned or even literally speaking said something offensive, on my end it was an intentional exaggeration and not really related.

As for this entire thing, I'd say we mostly agree with the exception that you seem to find the feature pointless because its vanity/ocd/manpower/etc which simply I disagree with thinking its well worth it and simple. No one's ever complained about unlocking outfits in other games (though I understand as well that this is a fighter).

My idea is purely suggestion, which is why I said "offended" because it doesn't have to be done, just something along the lines of non intrusive unlocks wont kill anyone. At this point I'm just saying the idea has merit.

No hard feelings though, I actually appreciate your posts.
Wow, what a needlessly violent and threatening way to begin a post. Listen, I appreciate the concilatory tone at the end there, and I agree that if there was any insult in our exchanges it was mild and directed more at the arguments than eachother per se, and I personally don't mind a little rough and tumble in such debates. But honestly man, I think you need to be careful with an image like that. It's the type of thing that can get you banned fast, and beyond that, it's simply unkind to anybody who happens to be reading this thread who's ever had a gun actually pointed in their face, in one context or another, which I assure is an image you don't casually respond to as a psychological matter thereafter, even for those who've been trained to deal with it. And frankly, with the shit that is going on in the world today, it's just an unhealthy message to send that this would even be anywhere in a catalogue of healthy responses to a disagreement. It's just not proportional to the subject matter here, nor very conductive to a tone of civil disagreement if that's what you're striving for. I'd seriously recommend removing it before it sets of a shitstorm of drama.
 
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Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
guys this is not SC related anymore so pls keep your arguments and issues in shitpost or just DM each other cus this is ridiculous.
Uh, you want to point out a post where I went off-SC-topic, before my last post (on a matter I don't feel I could have not addressed, all things considered)? Otherwise, please don't lump me in with the idea of having played a role in taking this away from an appropriate place..
 

Crash X

[13] Hero