IKR as if Yun could ever compare to the glory that is Hwang?? The nerve of some people!Pretending there is a difference between yun and hwang in 2020
Soul Calibur VI: General discussion
- Thread starter SSfox
- Start date
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Wrong its the same character and you guys are cringy 
BaiburuBurakku
[09] Warrior
In what ways are they the same? Personality? if you ever played the games (which I'm sure you have) then you'd know they are different in that department. Moves? sure they may share SOME moves but that's only because Hwang was always a clone character to begin with. But even then he still retained moves that were exclusive to him. in SC3/SC3AE, he got a revamped moveset to further distinguish himself from Yun. By the time SC4/BD came around, Yun's moveset was more refined and so different, you can't even compare with Hwang's. The only thing they have in common (besides a few verticals) is the reason they pursue soul edge, to protect their homeland.Wrong its the same character and you guys are cringy
like I said, if you played these games, even casually, you'd know this. Then again, maybe you are aware of this and just like to tease those who like these characters (if your pfp is anything to go by).
Last edited:
Your name is literally FootWrong its the same character and you guys are cringy
Frayhua
[14] Master
Yun - seong's moveset in SCIV is trash & terrible. I know Hwang in the past borrowed from Mitsurugi in SE & Xianghua in SC1. The older games had a lot of characters that were copies. Ever since SCIII, characters were starting to become more different. In, SCVI characters have are much more unique. The similar weapons argument is really pointless now. Even in SCIII & IV, the argument could still be made because characters like Rock & Mi-na felt like afterthoughts in those games.
Crash X
[14] Master
What does THAT have to do with him being “cringy?”
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
All joking to the side, this question really hinges on the context you are considering it in. On the one hand, if we are talking about gameplay, the two movesets are aesthetically similar but mechanically distinct at least in the sense that they don't share moves: I certainly never felt that the movesets were redundant in II and III:AE and have no reason to believe they would be so here, in the game where the devs have invested the most effort to date to distinguishing mechanically related characters.
By the same token, I'm sorry to all the stans out there for these two characters, but these guys probably are the most redundant two characters in the franchise, in a broader sense: the case of Sophie and Cassie is the only one that even competes in this respect*. Precise mechanics not withstanding, they use the same weapon (not just in the sense of a dao, but the particular kind--niuweidao) and in a stylistically pretty similar fashion, combining traditional forms with wild, obviously wuxia-inspired acrobatics. The two look virtually identical, being just the subtletest possible variations of looking like they are straight out of a kpop boyband, and both dress in very similar versions of colourful garments meant to approximate period dress but landing somewhere closer to fantasy than faithful. Nothing uncommon, regarding that last bit, to most legacy Soulcalibur characters, of course, but they are especially close in tone in this case.
So are the two distinct enough to warrant both being the same game? Clearly yes, given they have done so twice before and none of the "psuedo-clones" have presented an issue in the present game so far. But are they at the same time perhaps the two most overlapping characters when you consider all tonal, stylistic, and mechanical factors? Yeah, I think that's also pretty undeniable. Though I am going to say it outright: after these two characters (who at a minimum have a classic important style between them) have been systematically removed from the last couple of console entries and then pushed until very late in the post-release continuing support DLC cycle for this game, I begin to wonder just how much their decline in inclusion can be attributed to...let's just say a surge of a particular type of social feature in Japan, vis-a-vis Koreans that has been on the rise since the nineties.
By the same token, I'm sorry to all the stans out there for these two characters, but these guys probably are the most redundant two characters in the franchise, in a broader sense: the case of Sophie and Cassie is the only one that even competes in this respect*. Precise mechanics not withstanding, they use the same weapon (not just in the sense of a dao, but the particular kind--niuweidao) and in a stylistically pretty similar fashion, combining traditional forms with wild, obviously wuxia-inspired acrobatics. The two look virtually identical, being just the subtletest possible variations of looking like they are straight out of a kpop boyband, and both dress in very similar versions of colourful garments meant to approximate period dress but landing somewhere closer to fantasy than faithful. Nothing uncommon, regarding that last bit, to most legacy Soulcalibur characters, of course, but they are especially close in tone in this case.
So are the two distinct enough to warrant both being the same game? Clearly yes, given they have done so twice before and none of the "psuedo-clones" have presented an issue in the present game so far. But are they at the same time perhaps the two most overlapping characters when you consider all tonal, stylistic, and mechanical factors? Yeah, I think that's also pretty undeniable. Though I am going to say it outright: after these two characters (who at a minimum have a classic important style between them) have been systematically removed from the last couple of console entries and then pushed until very late in the post-release continuing support DLC cycle for this game, I begin to wonder just how much their decline in inclusion can be attributed to...let's just say a surge of a particular type of social feature in Japan, vis-a-vis Koreans that has been on the rise since the nineties.
* unless we consider the SCV replacement styles--but I would argue they are unique case, collectively.
Last edited:
Soul
Valide Kösem Sultan
Man, y'all need to use the ignore button more often..
LisaK
[14] Master
I just wanted to stop being notified every time Stinky Feet says something.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
Mitsurugi and Arthur disagree with this sentiment.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Meeeeehhh....I would argue that by comparison to Rain and G-Dragon there, even Mitsurugi and expy Arthur are more distinct--at least by SCIII anyway. But in any event, you'll notice there is a "perhaps" in the statement you quote. I'm not saying there are not other close pairs that are candidates for the "most similar" status, but at a minimum Hwang/Yun-seung is a major contender. I'd still be happy to see both of them in a game together again, but there has to be some degree of willful ignorance for anybody who claims not to understand the argument that they are very similar across a large span of relevant features.
RyujiSakamoto
Premium Member
Last edited:
RyujiSakamoto
Premium Member
If he gets in over lizardman I-I don't...
DanteSC3
[14] Master
The moveset in SoulCalibur III was the only distinctive factor between Mitsurugi and Arthur. They’ve always otherwise been literal copy and paste jobs in all other aspects, just making Mitsurugi have blonde hair and adding an eyepatch, with a palette swap. As Dissidia points out, even in SoulCalibur III, Arthur just used Mitsurugi’s SoulCalibur II model with a recolor. SoulCalibur VI used customization parts to make a quasi-unique Arthur in story modes, but still uses Mitsurugi’s face and hair as a base with scant modifications. But then when we got color 3/4, Mitsurugi got an “Arthur mode” that literally is again just a recolor with an eyepatch added.
They are similar like Sophitia and Cassandra, I’ll give you that much, but Mitsurugi and Arthur will always be the kings of the clone game. If we have tiers, I think it would be:
S: Mitsurugi and Arthur
A: Hwang and Yun-seong, Rock and Astaroth
B: Sophitia and Cassandra, Aeon before SoulCalibur III
C: Seong Mi-na and Kilik, Raphael and Amy
D: Siegfried and Nightmare, Li Long and Maxi
E: Necrid and Azwel, Dampierre and Ezio
RyujiSakamoto
Premium Member
I posted this and then deleted it because I realized nobody else has verified this. So if this is not correct or turns out to be false don't shoot me!
But really? Dampierre?
sytus
[14] Master
Here's the list just in case the image gets taken down on Twitter.
LisaK
[14] Master
Since when Lizardman can do Cassandra's throw? It's not a criticism, I thought it was cool, I don't remember him doing that.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
Since launch. The AI Lizardmen just don’t fight enough for you to see it.
Hayate
[13] Hero
I just want to talk about Hwang and try to explain my point of view.
First I will write what I know about the history of the game and in which purpose he has been added, succeded to stay in SC1, and finally been replaced in the SC2 Project Soul Replacement wagon.
Soul Blade
Hwang has been introduced in the Korean Arcade version of Soul Blade to replace Mitsurugi, because of the burden between Japan/Korea, I don't know if he had signatures moves at that time, but I'am guessing he was sharing almost everything with Mitsu, like Arthur does in SC1 Korean version.
Then in the console release, they added him as unique character alongside Mitsurugi, and he had already several unique moves (probably around 10~15 with his throw animation), the game didn't have that much moves.
At this time he wasn't the Dao archetype, his stance was like Mitsurugi, his sword wasn't chinese. But he already developped athletics attacks and some of his iconic moves (1B, 1A, 3B, 3AAB, WR B, 44K etc)
Soul Calibur
He apparently succeded being a character alone because they added him again in SC1 as a unique character. They added again around 10-20moves unique to Hwang, but like Yoshi/Mitsu, Asta/Rock, Mina/Kilik, Sophie/Lizardman in the game, he was sharing moves with Xianghua. I didn't have counted exactly how much he shares more than the other in this list, but it always felt like the game had multiple clones and Hwang wasn't an exception at all.
In the Korean version of the game, Mitsurugi has been replaced by Arthur this time, to let Hwang have his own slot and purpose as an official character of the game.
I guess Hwang or the archetype behind him, or physical attributes did have some sucess, and this "type" of character was planned to have his slot in SC2 base roster.
Soul Calibur 2
However, as we recently know, they tried to throw out a lot of character in the SC2 développement, even Mitsurugi, Taki, Sophitia, Mina (and Hwang, LIzardman, Rock). They later finally decided to keep Mitsu and Taki for the first release of the game : the arcade version.
Months later they recalled Mina and Sophitia for the console version.
And a few months later, for the US version they added masked versions of Rock/Hwang and put a Lizardman who was more similar to Cassandra this time. Maybe they didn't had time/ressources to fully implement thoses character for a regional version or maybe they didn't want to give thoses characters to only westerns players, (where Mina/Sophitia were in all versions) that's maybe why they are masked behind Berzerker and Assassin so they don't have to deal with fans asking stories etc...
Soul Calibur 3
In SC3 the game has been released this time first in console, and they recalled Lizardman, Rock and worked a lot to differentiate them from their former clones. As for Hwang, he was in the game with most of his signatures moves and new ones but in the bonus character list alongside Amy and Lilong. Yun-Seong was keeping the base roster slot.
Months later he has been finally released in the Arcade Version with a unique moveset with Amy and LiLong.
The fact that Hwang and Yun-Seong shares some physical similarities (like Sophitia & Cassandra) but are less popular from thoses 2 girls might be the reason why they didn't had the extra effort to let them live both earlier in the game. But it seems they are willing to do it if they have the time to go this far in the roster as what they have shown in SC3 Arcade Version.
That's why Hwang have been in the weaker side while Rock, Lizardman were at least giving different physics, personalities and design, and now they have been given new weapons. The reason they added Hwang is probably because they were already aware that he had some significant fan base. (like Sophie/Cassy situation but less popular so less urgent to deal)
Soul Calibur 4, SoulCalibur 5
Few people has been able to replay with Hwang in AE, I didn't for example. And the series has been under pressure again right after in Soulcalibur 4 and 5, making the Hwang case not a priority again. I knew this because I did get some informations from Daishi and they were saying that Namco lead was putting them under pressure to make the game a success, so they tried a lot of things and bringing back some character wasn't the biggest priority, saving the game was already the purpose. They tried the double guess starwars in SC4 and the new generation cast in SC5.
Conclusion
In conclusion there were tons of reasons that didn't helped Hwang to came back and have the same treatment as other former clones. Ideally I see his situation very close to Sophie / Cassy but with less popularity,
What makes him different from Li Long, is that despite having a replacement, Hwang has much more fans and it may be due to him having a very different personality and appealing different fans than Yun-Seong's fans. Project Soul has maybe understanded this, and they started helping both char differentiate in SC3 AE.
At the end, I would just that Hwang has a strong fan base, even stronger than some other classic character, and that makes me think that Yun-Seong failed somewhere to appeal thoses fans. It was surely intented from Project Soul to make Yun Seong different enough to add diversity in personalities and it's great, But they underestimated the value that Hwang was bringing. I think he is for example one of the few real "classic heroic" archetype. This may be boring for some, but it's also what some part of fans liked in him. His devotion to his people, his country and his relation with Mina/Myong etc...
I hope you did learn something, if you know something that I don't, or want to correct something, don't hesitate to share, if someday I do a video about Hwang and Yun.
First I will write what I know about the history of the game and in which purpose he has been added, succeded to stay in SC1, and finally been replaced in the SC2 Project Soul Replacement wagon.
Soul Blade
Hwang has been introduced in the Korean Arcade version of Soul Blade to replace Mitsurugi, because of the burden between Japan/Korea, I don't know if he had signatures moves at that time, but I'am guessing he was sharing almost everything with Mitsu, like Arthur does in SC1 Korean version.
Then in the console release, they added him as unique character alongside Mitsurugi, and he had already several unique moves (probably around 10~15 with his throw animation), the game didn't have that much moves.
At this time he wasn't the Dao archetype, his stance was like Mitsurugi, his sword wasn't chinese. But he already developped athletics attacks and some of his iconic moves (1B, 1A, 3B, 3AAB, WR B, 44K etc)
Soul Calibur
He apparently succeded being a character alone because they added him again in SC1 as a unique character. They added again around 10-20moves unique to Hwang, but like Yoshi/Mitsu, Asta/Rock, Mina/Kilik, Sophie/Lizardman in the game, he was sharing moves with Xianghua. I didn't have counted exactly how much he shares more than the other in this list, but it always felt like the game had multiple clones and Hwang wasn't an exception at all.
In the Korean version of the game, Mitsurugi has been replaced by Arthur this time, to let Hwang have his own slot and purpose as an official character of the game.
I guess Hwang or the archetype behind him, or physical attributes did have some sucess, and this "type" of character was planned to have his slot in SC2 base roster.
Soul Calibur 2
However, as we recently know, they tried to throw out a lot of character in the SC2 développement, even Mitsurugi, Taki, Sophitia, Mina (and Hwang, LIzardman, Rock). They later finally decided to keep Mitsu and Taki for the first release of the game : the arcade version.
Months later they recalled Mina and Sophitia for the console version.
And a few months later, for the US version they added masked versions of Rock/Hwang and put a Lizardman who was more similar to Cassandra this time. Maybe they didn't had time/ressources to fully implement thoses character for a regional version or maybe they didn't want to give thoses characters to only westerns players, (where Mina/Sophitia were in all versions) that's maybe why they are masked behind Berzerker and Assassin so they don't have to deal with fans asking stories etc...
Soul Calibur 3
In SC3 the game has been released this time first in console, and they recalled Lizardman, Rock and worked a lot to differentiate them from their former clones. As for Hwang, he was in the game with most of his signatures moves and new ones but in the bonus character list alongside Amy and Lilong. Yun-Seong was keeping the base roster slot.
Months later he has been finally released in the Arcade Version with a unique moveset with Amy and LiLong.
The fact that Hwang and Yun-Seong shares some physical similarities (like Sophitia & Cassandra) but are less popular from thoses 2 girls might be the reason why they didn't had the extra effort to let them live both earlier in the game. But it seems they are willing to do it if they have the time to go this far in the roster as what they have shown in SC3 Arcade Version.
That's why Hwang have been in the weaker side while Rock, Lizardman were at least giving different physics, personalities and design, and now they have been given new weapons. The reason they added Hwang is probably because they were already aware that he had some significant fan base. (like Sophie/Cassy situation but less popular so less urgent to deal)
Soul Calibur 4, SoulCalibur 5
Few people has been able to replay with Hwang in AE, I didn't for example. And the series has been under pressure again right after in Soulcalibur 4 and 5, making the Hwang case not a priority again. I knew this because I did get some informations from Daishi and they were saying that Namco lead was putting them under pressure to make the game a success, so they tried a lot of things and bringing back some character wasn't the biggest priority, saving the game was already the purpose. They tried the double guess starwars in SC4 and the new generation cast in SC5.
Conclusion
In conclusion there were tons of reasons that didn't helped Hwang to came back and have the same treatment as other former clones. Ideally I see his situation very close to Sophie / Cassy but with less popularity,
What makes him different from Li Long, is that despite having a replacement, Hwang has much more fans and it may be due to him having a very different personality and appealing different fans than Yun-Seong's fans. Project Soul has maybe understanded this, and they started helping both char differentiate in SC3 AE.
At the end, I would just that Hwang has a strong fan base, even stronger than some other classic character, and that makes me think that Yun-Seong failed somewhere to appeal thoses fans. It was surely intented from Project Soul to make Yun Seong different enough to add diversity in personalities and it's great, But they underestimated the value that Hwang was bringing. I think he is for example one of the few real "classic heroic" archetype. This may be boring for some, but it's also what some part of fans liked in him. His devotion to his people, his country and his relation with Mina/Myong etc...
I hope you did learn something, if you know something that I don't, or want to correct something, don't hesitate to share, if someday I do a video about Hwang and Yun.
Last edited:
DanteSC3
[14] Master
This really just reeks of speculation more than anything else, unless a dataminer could confirm with evidence the existence of Rock, Yun-seong, and Dampierre in a roster capacity. I’m still shock to hear that Hwang doesn’t have dummy data like Aeon, though, since they both reek of should have been on the base roster, supported by in-game evidence.