= Teh Gatsu’s SC UNIVERSE Temple, post-quarantine edition =

Kostas_Greece

[14] Master
The way you used the Libra of Soul characters with the SoulCalibur minor characters is so cool my friend Gatsu! I really enjoyed that you bring Frederick back as a zombie version, everyone are great again!
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
- For Dion and Natalie i'm not sure, tbh before read you mention them i did not even considered their inclusion.
On one side i feel they're veryvery marginal and not charismatic, on the other they're so conceptually weak that they leave lot of room for redesign.
I may consider, but i feel do 2 more with Aval's mandatory points risk to become truly redundant (at first i was'nt even sure about add Curtis).
Maybe one of them, as we speak i have an half idea on how Dion can work
It depends on how major you feel the Libra of Soul story is, I suppose. I agree that they don't have the same development as characters from Soul Chronicle, but even so, they are the eyes and ears of the Aval Organization after the passing of Orzal and Curtis, so they have the legacy to uphold, and I imagine that we'll see them again come SoulCalibur VII. I'm actually a little shocked that they weren't by Grøh's side during Hilde's story.

- About Lingyu i was looking for a unexpected (->western) piece that could pass as chinese and i just loved these gloves wich required a sleveless tunic.
Overall i like her and feel the height combined with Raph stance give a pretty distinctive look next to Xianghua... i picked on purpose shots that got her in plastic/dynamic pose to have some kung fu vibe, but reality is Raph's animations set them world aparts.
About weapon, i picked the one that gone the most away from a classical european shape and for that i did'nt liked their pick, the Royal Rpier had too much western look on the guard/hilt section. Though the Epee with the right coloration could have sold a more exotic origin, all while looking a more light sword
Maybe it is just the stills making her seem more Xianghua-esque than she really is, just... I'd have to see her in action to really approve, I think.

- General consideration on Frederick as i feel is the less immediate concept
The point here was portrait him as a sort of symbolic nightmare/vision that haunt Siegfried's dreams, so not only he have the i'msofuckingdead zombie look, but also carry the family gravestone to add symbolism to the image.
It make clear to Sieg the accusation on him every second Frederick is on screen, almost like incarnate the murder/sin itself rather than the father
I liked to use the eagle as a decorative statue on the tombstone, making up it being some sort of symbol of the Schtauffen family... linking also to Schwarzwind phoenix emblem
His reference look is obviously SC1 ending one (rather than SC4 cas), but it also reference his canon death: in SC1 Sieg stab him on the belly, while on reality canon wise Sieg killed him by decapitation... for that reason i gave him an huge scar that goes around the neck (not so visible in pics) as if the head has been reattached.
Fun story, an head-less Frederick has been considered by namco as a char back to SC1... i tried to rep that too while doing mine
I did see these things, but I also didn't realize you'd gone so deep with it. It really works well! More creativity than Namco, to be sure.

- Not much visible, but Kong have a bit on red on cheeks, simulating he drink a lot and he's often a little drunk lol
Oh, I definitely noticed this, don't worry!
 

Rusted Blade

[13] Hero
and I imagine that we'll see them again come SoulCalibur VII.
You wanna take a bet on that? I'm pretty certain these two are destined to go the way of most other tertiary Soulcalibur characters and never be referenced again--and especially not as active elements of the ongoing story. Personally, I think that's for the best in this instance--there's been a lot of lazy, goofy storytelling in this franchise over the years, but the Aval Organization takes the cake for anachronistic, generic nonsense. I just can't imagine anybody aside from Groh and Azwel are likely to make any kind of concrete material appearance moving forward and I think that's for the best.

It's for similar reasons that I 100% support Gatsu's decision not to dive any deeper into these characters: even if he was willing to expand beyond the 100 slots he has allowed for in filling out the Soulcalibur extended cast, the aval group just are not good candidates: there's a reason this most recent batch is kind of the weakest in the thread so far and it has nothing to do with Gatsu's abilities: Gatsu is exceptional at this process as we all know. Rather, it is the designs that he has to start with for these SCVI backstory characters are extremely weak to begin with, and there's only so much even the best CaSer can do with them from those starting places. There's just no more subtle way to put it but to say they are dumb-looking characters with dumb roles in a dumb story. Speaking of which....

More creativity than Namco, to be sure.
There are dozens of reasons why I have, since the core game's release, become increasingly convinced that the portions of the game which Namco outsourced to Dimps are primarily the single player content, and one of those many things is the huge gulf between the quality of the art design with regard to the main cast and the rather mediocre thrown-together-with-CaS-asset designs of the other characters in the story modes, particularly Libra and the non-post-release Chronicles characters.

Not only does the complete lack of custom work (that is to say, nothing that couldn't be done with the CaS editor) on these side characters suggest they were not done by Namco in and of themselves, but even within the vein of character created with the CaS editor, they are extremely underwhelming: as Gatsu ably demonstrates here, even a non-professional can do better than what we got in those modes, let alone what we might expect from one of Namco's character designers with a much richer set of tools. I think this is all pretty substantial evidence (in a much larger body of such proof) that these are the modes that got sourced out by Namco. and all the more reason why we don't need a half dozen lame a.f. Aval characters showing up in future game getting their lame anime vibe and lazy pop fantasy storytelling stank all over another entry.

And especially it justifies Gatsu's decision to only give so much attention to this crop of characters and instead focus on others with at least a modicum of style and potential to build upon in their base artistic design. Don't listen to Dante, Gatsu: if she had her way, she would have you replicating every character who ever got a proper noun name in the series. (Said in good humour, for the record, Dante! :P) Quality, not quantity--that's the way to go!
 
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Gatsu

[14] Master
The way you used the Libra of Soul characters with the SoulCalibur minor characters is so cool my friend Gatsu!
The strange thing of LoS and that other mode is that some concepts are legit nice
Like not SC cast level of interessing, but some if developed better they could have been comparable at least to SC3 bonus characters
I mean they let a such important char like Hilde's father look like the average c-level CAS
Feel bad for the guy that did the portraits... he actually worked professionally, gave lot of respect to designs and have an awesome hand while at it

But at least that situation leave room to redesign without fear to ruin something good :D
 
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Gatsu

[14] Master
Well, i done some talking (i put on spoiler some walltext, just to keep page less text heavy), now time to back shit up with pics

ROUND 7, quick round!

LUDOVIGO - https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Ludovigo
1592393008777.png


ALPHARD - https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Alphard
1592393068953.png


GISELE - https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Gisele
1592393085816.png


TOKI - https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Toki
1592393116606.png


SHUGEN - https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Shugen_Kokonoe
1592393156285.png



as Gatsu ably demonstrates here, even a non-professional can do better than what we got in those modes, let alone what we might expect from one of Namco's character designers with a much richer set of tools.
To be fair
1592394577755.png

This just to say that to reach some level of design quality it require have some design knowledge that goes beyond "these 2 colors/pieces looks cool together", BUT that does'nt deny much your statement (if anything reinforce it), as the people they hire for an AAA title of a series of such importance should have some standards

They can't even hide behind having lot of NPCs to do, i just did 75+ without being paid during lazy quarantine time and keep doing my full time job, ALL of them having more work and detail than their best CaS. Wich is not to brag, just sad reality
When you see how they did Drona, who's even supposed to be a relevant component in a mode (you see him 999 times) you realize they just grabbed the money and done the minimum*

*note for future: redesign Drona lol
 
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Kostas_Greece

[14] Master
Everytime that you upload some of your creation my friend @Gatsu, I know that I will see something cool and perfect! Toki, Gisele and Shugen look really beautiful!
 

bagazstormy

[04] Fighter
Question regarding your Shugen Kokonoe creation. Did you give him a one-sleeve top because iaijutsu practitioners tend to remove the sleeve of their dominant sword hand to maximize the speed of their draw? The same reason why Setsuka's SCIV outfit has her not wearing one of her sleeves?

Or was it just a design choice? Either way, he looks good and quite the snack. No wonder Setsuka fell for him.
 
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  • #48

Gatsu

[14] Master
Question regarding your Shugen Kokonoe creation. Did you give him a one-sleeve top because iaijutsu practitioners tend to remove the sleeve of their dominant sword hand to maximize the speed of their draw?
Very good eye!
For same reason i also gave him a leather fingerless glove on same hand, for a more firm grip (the original design got It too, fun coincidence)

Now i'm at work, later today i may add some design notes... Shugen has been the most interessing concept to do indeed
 
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weshookhands

[11] Champion
Very good eye!
For same reason i also gave him a leather fingerless glove on same hand, for a more firm grip

Now i'm at work, later today i may add some design notes... Shugen has been the most interessing concept to do indeed
Not to be blasphemic, but Shugen made me wonder why you opted for Kilik's hair style and hair colour instead of his concept art light brown/dark blonde and a longer or shorter haircut? At first glance I thought "well, that's Kilik", even perpetuated by his outfit.
 
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Gatsu

[14] Master
About Shugen
- i designed him to fit Setsuka, considering her likely shaped up her "japanese look" living with him
For that reason i gave him some traits she got: elegant even to the point of being flamboyant, but serious badass at same time
I liked give him lot of cloth elements that flap while he move, another similarity with Setsuka

- i tried to think somebody who can fit well her Jyurakudai Villa stage, aside the overall costume style, also the pink flowers on him work as a link

- i liked them give him azure as main color, it counterpart well Setsuka's female pink. Keept it

- i liked that one sketch in particular gave him very very lean look, it work well on the idea of him being more a speed/technical guy next to Mitsu's stocky built power, i keept that
The clouds on his kimono aside being decorative to keep design busy are also a symbol of his style, if the dude had an "element" it will be air/wind... wich made me like Haohmaru's "shoryukens" or his tornados

- As @bagazstormy noticed i gone for single-sleeve to keep the arm free like Setsuka before him, as said also the glove for better grip fit same logic

- Mitsurugi style could have fit specially on relic stance, but considering the dude destiny is to go face Mitsu and die, i wanted to differentiate the two giving him another katana style.
I liked Haohmaru's huge sword as next to Mitsu it create a bit a Musashi(Mitsu) vs Kojiro(Shugen) thing
Plus Haohmaru alternate super where he cut throught the opponent and the screen turns black and white, feels perfect as it remind me Setsuka's CF in SC4

- while at it i tried to give him some Jubei (ninja Scroll) vibe
Not to be blasphemic, but Shugen made me wonder why you opted for Kilik's hair style and hair colour instead of his concept art light brown/dark blonde and a longer or shorter haircut?
@weshookhands
It has been a development step by step eliminating options
Hair color: i accept asian characters getting brown to reddish-brown as alt color (to black) because it give variety to design, but that's mostly where i draw the line a bit
Random blond asians (i know Maxi 2P, but 1P is what matter) or on general bunch of over anime/edgy stuff like Groh, Zwei, Natsu, Luna etc are part of what i consider the weak/mediocre side of SC design
I can do characters with "anime" hair colour, but as general rule i need a reason to pick it
To be clear, i don't dislike anime, for a fighting game i infinitely prefer japanese character design over western. I just like when anime is backed by country/cultural roots a bit

If you think about it, Shugen being random blond for no reason ruin the great design detail of Setsuka being a blond (due european blood) girl that color her hair black to fit in japanese society.
Or ever Japan, Arthur being easy foreign target due to his blond hair
Or going Samurai Shodown, Galford
These are doing it right to me

So going between brown or black, brown was closer to the source and i liked it because it reminded me the above mentioned Jubei. I did even a bit lighter considering the SC source, but not by much
About haircut you are right to some extent, there were closer options
Also here we go by elimination
Short hair or long hair, i quickly eliminated the short hair option: it give him a more simple figure and that does'nt end up well with a CaS

Long hair then. Dude at first got one of Azwel hair and after that Siegfried's. Azwel one did'nt gave the right vibes, Siegfred one looked kinda good on static standing figure, but looked problematic ingame doing moves
At the end Kilik's one gave me the right vibe, and it's not much shorter than in the sketch... not clear in the pics i did but i picked the long version, the one with long loose hair on the back that reach/surpass down shoulders level

Well, all that entire post about Shugen alone i guess explain why i don't want do design notes for all LOL
 
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weshookhands

[11] Champion
About Shugen
- i designed him to fit Setsuka, considering her likely shaped up her "japanese look" living with him
For that reason i gave him some traits she got: elegant even to the point of being flamboyant, but serious badass at same time
I liked give him lot of cloth elements that flap while he move, another similarity with Setsuka

- i tried to think somebody who can fit well her Jyurakudai Villa stage, aside the overall costume style, also the pink flowers on him work as a link

- i liked them give him azure as main color, it counterpart well Setsuka's female pink. Keept it

- i liked that one sketch in particular gave him very very lean look, it work well on the idea of him being more a speed/technical guy next to Mitsu's stocky built power, i keept that
The clouds on his kimono aside being decorative to keep design busy are also a symbol of his style, if the dude had an "element" it will be air/wind... wich made me like Haohmaru's "shoryukens" or his tornados

- As @bagazstormy noticed i gone for single-sleeve to keep the arm free like Setsuka before him, as said also the glove for better grip fit same logic

- Mitsurugi style could have fit specially on relic stance, but considering the dude destiny is to go face Mitsu and die, i wanted to differentiate the two giving him another katana style.
I liked Haohmaru's huge sword as next to Mitsu it create a bit a Musashi(Mitsu) vs Kojiro(Shugen) thing
Plus Haohmaru alternate super where he cut throught the opponent and the screen turns black and white, feels perfect as it remind me Setsuka's CF in SC4

- while at it i tried to give him some Jubei (ninja Scroll) vibe

@weshookhands
It has been a development step by step eliminating options
Hair color: i accept asian characters getting brown to reddish-brown as alt color (to black) because it give variety to design, but that's mostly where i draw the line a bit
Random blond asians (i know Maxi 2P, but 1P is what matter) or on general bunch of over anime/edgy stuff like Groh, Zwei, Natsu, Luna etc are part of what i consider the weak/mediocre side of SC design
I can do characters with "anime" hair colour, but as general rule i need a reason to pick it
To be clear, i don't dislike anime, for a fighting game i infinitely prefer japanese character design over western. I just like when anime is backed by country/cultural roots a bit

If you think about it, Shugen being random blond for no reason ruin the great design detail of Setsuka being a blond (due european blood) girl that color her hair black to fit in japanese society.
Or ever Japan, Arthur being easy foreign target due to his blond hair
Or going Samurai Shodown, Galford
These are doing it right to me

So going between brown or black, brown was closer to the source and i liked it because it reminded me the above mentioned Jubei. I did even a bit lighter considering the SC source, but not by much
About haircut you are right to some extent, there were closer options
Also here we go by elimination
Short hair or long hair, i quickly eliminated the short hair option: it give him a more simple figure and that does'nt end up well with a CaS

Long hair then. Dude at first got one of Azwel hair and after that Siegfried's. Azwel one did'nt gave the right vibes, Siegfred one looked kinda good on static standing figure, but looked problematic ingame doing moves
At the end Kilik's one gave me the right vibe, and it's not much shorter than in the sketch... not clear in the pics i did but i picked the long version, the one with long loose hair on the back that reach/surpass down shoulders level

Well, all that entire post about Shugen alone i guess explain why i don't want do design notes for all LOL
Thanks very much for the insight!

It's such a pity that Kilik's robe cannot be equipped with Mitsu's hip piece as that would make the idea of the freed sword arm much more plausible.

PS should just remove the equipment limitations. I don't mind clipping as we could make it work nonetheless and would have much much more option... I bet there's a mod for that on PC...
 
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bagazstormy

[04] Fighter
I bet there's a mod for that on PC...
There is. Someone made a whole software (Vodkalibur) that can alter CaS like bypass equipment clashes, use colors that are not normally usable using the in-game's color pallete, and mishmash different parts of different races, among other things.
 

Tikal

[03] Disciple
There is. Someone made a whole software (Vodkalibur) that can alter CaS like bypass equipment clashes, use colors that are not normally usable using the in-game's color pallete, and mishmash different parts of different races, among other things.
It sucks that I don't have PC, I'd probably have a lot more fun in CAS with something like that. Equipment clashes are really stupid considering some items that are compatible clip anyways.....
 
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superdurand

[07] Duelist
hello, I want to congratulate you ... I like the choice of faces, accessories and makeup that define your characters ... your choices are wise and perfectly suited to the personality of your heroes or villains ... I am seduced ... Same for the choice of clothes and colors. STRONGLY THE NEXT
 

Tikal

[03] Disciple
Your creations are amazing! Even with the limited material you're given, you manage to make all the characters distinct and unique. It's inspiring honestly :)
 

Flow

[09] Warrior
@Gatsu Amazing creations and great collcection! I'm glad I decided to check 8wayrun again after a long hiatus. Really inspiring stuff!
 
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Gatsu

[14] Master

Norik

[14] Master
Man, these are incredible! As always these designs are so complex I'm not even sure I know how you did many of those things (like Iska's shirt or Barbaros' face) but they still manage to be understated enough that they're not overdone. Great work.

I've always quite liked the SC Legends designs, it's a shame they were wasted on such a mediocre game. I'd definitely be happy if some of the more unique ones like Maki or Geki make it into a mainline game.