The Resolution thread!!

The esolution thread!!

Tiamat: ...because im not out for my own agenda, and I don't think I know everything unlike some people. Not contradicting...just listening and adjusting my stance. I am not above seeing things from different perspectives and only want a level playing field for everyone, so we can just play the game and have fun doing it. If this thread can help people get there heads out of there asses to see where they can agree instead of where they don't...then it was a success.

To your second statement, Only the most dedicated player will want to learn how to fight against Algol played at his maximum efficiency. People ran for the hills the first time, and im willing to bet money that they'll do it again. Of course thats an opinion...its all opinion. Maybe quiting out of fear and failure to understand/research is weak, and my gut reaction to that is "we don't need people like that anyways", fact is less people means smaller community. Nobody wants to play a game nobody else plays let alone are exited about, at least not anybody I know. Some people just like playing cult games that everybody else has grown to dislike I guess...but this game has the potential to be played in depth for years and years by many. If I waited for Namco to deliver a sequel better than this out of the box, let alone another patch to make a good game better...i'd die. As a community, we have the power to set boundries Namco won't, to insure this game is fun for everyone.

Oof: ...You and me both know that comparison is ridiculous with respect to the level of ease and thought it takes to make each one of those characters effective enough to win tournaments consistantly.
 
The esolution thread!!

The real problem is the attitude many people have toward Algol (or Hilde). Self-fulfilling prophecy can be dangerous. If you tell yourself that they are too powerful to defeat, you set a huge roadblock in your path to gain understanding and improve your abilities as a player. You blame your loss on the character, when the true problem is your own lack of research and ingenuity.

Until the majority of the players realize this to be the case, the community will constantly be plagued by ban discussions such as these.
 
The esolution thread!!

well, you know me. If it's fair, and it isn't as stupid. I'm ok with it. I will give my opinion on the topic. But it doesn't matter. I care more if the community can universally agree on a certain rule. That way, it does make us look good.
 
It. Is. Too. Early. To. Ban. ANYTHING. Right. Now. The Algol ban was premature. As a whole, yes it takes more work to win a bad matchup but as Cedric implied you'll be a better player ACROSS THE BOARD by adapting. Maybe I'm crazy, but that sounds like a GOOD thing.

Really though, what do you care what all the community thinks? Take the people who matter (read: not me) and just FUCKING AGREE ON SOMETHING!!!!!
 
The esolution thread!!

Tiamat said:
The real problem is the attitude many people have toward Algol (or Hilde). Self-fulfilling prophecy can be dangerous. If you tell yourself that they are too powerful to defeat, you set a huge roadblock in your path to gain understanding and improve your abilities as a player. You blame your loss on the character, when the true problem is your own lack of research and ingenuity.

Until the majority of the players realize this to be the case, the community will constantly be plagued by ban discussions such as these.
Click to expand...



The solution is simple.
Algol players and Hilde players need to find ways to deal with Hilde and Algol when they play against one of them as their alternative characters.
If these players don't want to do the work to protect their character and prove that they're balanced, then Hilde and Algol deserve to be banned.
/thread.
 
The esolution thread!!

Plume said:
The solution is simple.
Algol players and Hilde players need to find ways to deal with Hilde and Algol when they play against one of them as their alternative characters.
If these players don't want to do the work to protect their character and prove that they're balanced, then Hilde and Algol deserve to be banned.
/thread.
Click to expand...

/yourstupidpost
 
Even though I used an arrogant tone, I'm pretty sure that it's what needs to be done.

There are three kinds of people here.

1.Those who play Algol/Hilde and are convinced that their character is mostly balanced.
2.Those who don't and are convinced, after searching and trying, that their character has very low hopes against Algol/Hilde.
3.Those who only want to be cool. "Don't ban, man, it's not cool. Peace and love, man."
 
The esolution thread!!

Plume said:
The solution is simple.
Algol players and Hilde players need to find ways to deal with Hilde and Algol when they play against one of them as their alternative characters.
If these players don't want to do the work to protect their character and prove that they're balanced, then Hilde and Algol deserve to be banned.
/thread.
Click to expand...
You're wrong about that.

Someone posted in another thread: "We can't reach a universal agreement on the matter so by default, all characters should be allowed."

That means people need to be proving why they are broken and need to be banned. Nobody needs to prove why they are balanced.

"Innocent until proven guilty."
 
The esolution thread!!

Plume said:
The solution is simple.
Algol players and Hilde players need to find ways to deal with Hilde and Algol when they play against one of them as their alternative characters.
If these players don't want to do the work to protect their character and prove that they're balanced, then Hilde and Algol deserve to be banned.
Click to expand...

The burden of proof rests with you, so I do not need to respond to this, but I will anyway.

As you know, I am an Algol player. You think I don't know how to fight Algol with another character? Look at some of these. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B0E8E17AA63D0D83

There is more that could be done on both sides but if you watch the matches and still say I don't know how to fight Algol using another character, I'm gonna call bullshit on you.
 
The esolution thread!!

Tiamat said:
The burden of proof rests with you, so I do not need to respond to this, but I will anyway.

As you know, I am an Algol player. You think I don't know how to fight Algol with another character? Look at some of these. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B0E8E17AA63D0D83

There is more that could be done on both sides but if you watch the matches and still say I don't know how to fight Algol using another character, I'm gonna call bullshit on you.
Click to expand...

DARN IT! I was hoping that was a SC3 link on how to beat Ivy with Nightmare. BAH!

Anyways, I have only played one Hilde player (good one) my whole life, and it was online. Getting doom comboed with lag is no fun.

Ban moves. Ban stages. Ban characters. In that order. Banning a character outright should be a last resort. That model has worked for even the most unbalanced fighting games, and I see no reason it shouldn't be used here.
 
The esolution thread!!

OOFMATIC said:
Someone posted in another thread: "We can't reach a universal agreement on the matter so by default, all characters should be allowed."
Click to expand...

It's not because it has been said, that it makes it true.
Algol and Hilde ARE proven guilty by all of those who can't find a way to beat them.

Basically, by refusing a ban, and playing Algol at a tournament, you're pretty much saying "I demand that you give me that (un-ban), but I refuse to give you what you want in exchange. (Solutions to beat Algol/Hilde.)




Tiamat said:
The burden of proof rests with you, so I do not need to respond to this, but I will anyway.

As you know, I am an Algol player. You think I don't know how to fight Algol with another character
Click to expand...


I knew that you play Nightmare too. I'm not saying that no character can beat Algol. I'm saying that SOME characters [edit: appear unable to do so.] (Some, possibly most.)
 
Plume said:
Even though I used an arrogant tone, I'm pretty sure that it's what needs to be done.

There are three kinds of people here.

1.Those who play Algol/Hilde and are convinced that their character is mostly balanced.
2.Those who don't and are convinced, after searching and trying, that their character has very low hopes against Algol/Hilde.
3.Those who only want to be cool. "Don't ban, man, it's not cool. Peace and love, man."
Click to expand...

Huzzah for idiotic strawmen misrepresentations of differing sides!
 
The esolution thread!!

Plume said:
It's not because it has been said, that it makes it true.
Algol and Hilde ARE proven guilty by all of those who can't find a way to beat them.

Basically, by refusing a ban, and playing Algol at a tournament, you're pretty much saying "I demand that you give me that (un-ban), but I refuse to give you what you want in exchange. (Solutions to beat Algol/Hilde.)
Click to expand...

we can't help it if you can't hang with the bigs. sorry. the majority of what i've seen from "omg the character is broken, look at this," vids is entirely ignorance on the part of the person playing against "X" character.

I knew that you play Nightmare too. I'm not saying that no character can beat Algol. I'm saying that SOME characters [edit: appear unable to do so.] (Some, possibly most.)

i took the liberty of bolding the most important word in this sentence that puts a gigantic hole in your entire argument.
 
It's not a hole. In fact it's a backbone.
It appears that way. Prove us that we're wrong. If you say that it's not for you to do (which is an excuse for "I don't know"), then you're pretty much proving that Algol/Hilde is indeed broken. At least against said character(s).


I'm not a tournament player. I'm not here to ban Algol. I'm here to convince you all to show us how to defeat your dear characters. Assuming that there's a way. Supposedly, if we believe what you guys are saying, everyone can beat Algol and Hilde. So show us how, to us, poor little unworthy ignorant "scrubs."
 
Plume said:
It's not because it has been said, that it makes it true.
Algol and Hilde ARE proven guilty by all of those who can't find a way to beat them.

Basically, by refusing a ban, and playing Algol at a tournament, you're pretty much saying "I demand that you give me that (un-ban), but I refuse to give you what you want in exchange. (Solutions to beat Algol/Hilde.)
Click to expand...

No, it hasn't been proven. There hasn't been complete and utter domination by players using Algol usurping significantly better players using characters considered lower tier. Simply because the Algol/Hilde players refuse to hold your hand in advancing your knowledge of a character does not make them ban worthy.


Plume said:
I knew that you play Nightmare too. I'm not saying that no character can beat Algol. I'm saying that SOME characters [edit: appear unable to do so.] (Some, possibly most.)
Click to expand...

Sophie utterly dominates some of the matches she plays against, as well as Kilik and a few others, and they remain unbanned. Bans are not made simply because some characters have unfavorable matchups against better characters.
 
You really don't understand how this works. You don't ban a character and then say prove it's not broken. You leave a character alone and prove it needs to be banned. "Algol and Hilde ARE proven guilty by all of those who can't find a way to beat them." has to be the dumbest line I've heard in a long long time concerning a ban. Sure makes all the people who can't beat Kilik feel better I'm sure.
 
Plume said:
It's not a hole. In fact it's a backbone.
It appears that way. Prove us that we're wrong. If you say that it's not for you to do (which is an excuse for "I don't know"), then you're pretty much proving that Algol/Hilde is indeed broken. At least against said character(s).


I'm not a tournament player. I'm not here to ban Algol. I'm here to convince you all to show us how to defeat your dear characters.
Click to expand...

backbone of your argument? i'd say your argument is a quadriplegic and is going no where fast.

learn it for your self. i can handle algol and hilde because *gasp* i play them/against them enough and know what their pros and cons are. maybe you should put forth a little effort and stop expecting people to just give you answers.

as it stands now, from my view of playing against both characters, i can say that they are not broken. until you prove to me otherwise that they are that i will consider your terrible idea of banning.
 
Felix007 said:
No, it hasn't been proven. There hasn't been complete and utter domination by players using Algol usurping significantly better players using characters considered lower tier. Simply because the Algol/Hilde players refuse to hold your hand in advancing your knowledge of a character does not make them ban worthy.
Click to expand...

And who did all these Algol and Hilde characters fight against? hilde, and Algol? Kilik? Sophitia? Cassandra? Ivy? Mitsurugi?
How many of these Algol and Hilde players fought against Yoshimitsu, Maxi, Talim, Cervantes, Lizardman, Raphael, Rock, Seong Mina, Setsuka, Siegfried, Taki, Tira, Zasalamel, Xianghua, and Yun Seong?



Sophie utterly dominates some of the matches she plays against, as well as Kilik and a few others, and they remain unbanned. Bans are not made simply because some characters have unfavorable matchups against better characters.
Click to expand...
Yeah.

That's why I said "possibly most."
 
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