Top 3 characters by Keev, Akire, Daishi, Hyrul, and RTD from World Finals

The definition of "Tier List" paraphrased professionally by none other than me, is a list of characters in order from best to worst, according to who people think have the least bad match-ups. This can be seen in a simpler light if you look at the Tier Charts on Eventhubs.com for Street Fighter. Whoever has the most good match ups and the least bad match ups ends up your S tier character. Whoever has one or two more bad match ups is your A tier, and so on and so forth.

Now, those charts are based on all frame data available for each character, and how they pair up with one another in different situations. In SF, every character has about 30 moves or so, counting EX moves etc. It's year 3, and they are still discovering new situations in SF that change match-ups around significantly. Basically, I'm lol'ing at people discussing tiers seriously in a game where every character has anywhere from 50-100 moves, another dimension to consider, and is 3 months old. Nobody knows shit about this game, nobody punishes anything so far, and Tier Lists are written assuming maximum potential per character - meaning, you play perfectly. Nobody here plays perfectly. This is why on paper α Patroklos is hands-down S tier, but you don't see him winning majors (yet).

Take these bullshit opinions with a grain of salt, and play who you want to play.
 
Tiers only matter in tournaments and even then it is only a factor, but there is an issue in viability. As much respect as I have for Raphael players, they will not win majors. You can win with average/fairly good characters though, you are not limited to top tiers - Keev, Omega and LinkRKC have all proven this.

Not that I'm one to support this, being an Alpha main and Viola alt, I firmly believe in giving yourself the best possible chance so in that sense you should consider how well each character fairs generally, but at the same time, you have to play with characters you both feel comfortable with and enjoy. For this reason I mained mid tier SCIV Siegfried because I was most comfortable with him.

Matchups are worth noting, tier lists are not, mainly because they don't reflect all the matchups, are almost always wrong anyway and 9/10 (as can be seen in this thread) are made by scrubs who have no business discussing an aspect that only applies at high level.

I say matchups are worth noting because you might have a character who you don't feel comfortable with against a couple of characters - such as Alpha:

I main the best punishment character in the game, but that doesn't count for much against paticularly safe characters and his guard crush game is weak, ergo characters like Leixia make me personally uneasy even though my character is clearly superior generally and the matchup is still in my favour. Viola on the other hand is not weak to her strengths so I have a still superior alt who is much harder for my opponent to deal with, if you catch my drift.
 
REPROBEAN_CHILD said:
Any kind of damage can add up to do significant damage, no matter how small it is. That's practically one of Viola's strengths; her damage imput may be low, but her attack rate and lengthy combos make up that shortcoming.
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I... just don't know what to say to this post...

A) Her damage output is nowhere even remotely CLOSE to low. In fact she has some of the highest meterless damage in the game. 6B+K 6B 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB does 110+ dmg. Even raw 3Bs go into 74 damage (which gets higher when she gets clean hits btw), which is higher than most of the cast. 4B 6B+K 1K is 54 dmg. She gets 141 dmg for 50 meter, and it just keeps scaling higher the more meter she uses. Are you stupid?
B) It's damage output.
C) "Attack Rate" is just a useless term that Namco coined for this game. "Pressure" would be more accurate.
D) Lengthy combos are in no way an advantage. Think about this: If Viola's 3B raw did 74 damage and knocked as far, how would that be in any way different than 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB? The only difference (assuming good execution of course) is that the latter takes more time off the clock. That's it. With sub-par execution long combos turn into a dis-advantage.

There are several other retarded posts that need addressing, but I'm too lazy at the moment.
 
Omegazyklon said:
I... just don't know what to say to this post...

A) Her damage output is nowhere even remotely CLOSE to low. In fact she has some of the highest meterless damage in the game. 6B+K 6B 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB does 110+ dmg. Even raw 3Bs go into 74 damage (which gets higher when she gets clean hits btw), which is higher than most of the cast. 4B 6B+K 1K is 54 dmg. She gets 141 dmg for 50 meter, and it just keeps scaling higher the more meter she uses. Are you stupid?
B) It's damage output.
C) "Attack Rate" is just a useless term that Namco coined for this game. "Pressure" would be more accurate.
D) Lengthy combos are in no way an advantage. Think about this: If Viola's 3B raw did 74 damage and knocked as far, how would that be in any way different than 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB? The only difference (assuming good execution of course) is that the latter takes more time off the clock. That's it. With sub-par execution long combos turn into a dis-advantage.

There are several other retarded posts that need addressing, but I'm too lazy at the moment.
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Nightblade said:
Take these bullshit opinions with a grain of salt, and play who you want to play.
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Speaking of bullshit opinions i still think calling Natsu the best in the game and Siegfried one of the worst is ridiculous... I wonder what's so good / so bad about these characters that makes daishi think this. If Natsu is the best now what was she before she lost her insane oki and better combo potential.
 
Omegazyklon said:
I... just don't know what to say to this post...

A) Her damage output is nowhere even remotely CLOSE to low. In fact she has some of the highest meterless damage in the game. 6B+K 6B 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB does 110+ dmg. Even raw 3Bs go into 74 damage (which gets higher when she gets clean hits btw), which is higher than most of the cast. 4B 6B+K 1K is 54 dmg. She gets 141 dmg for 50 meter, and it just keeps scaling higher the more meter she uses. Are you stupid?
B) It's damage output.
C) "Attack Rate" is just a useless term that Namco coined for this game. "Pressure" would be more accurate.
D) Lengthy combos are in no way an advantage. Think about this: If Viola's 3B raw did 74 damage and knocked as far, how would that be in any way different than 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB? The only difference (assuming good execution of course) is that the latter takes more time off the clock. That's it. With sub-par execution long combos turn into a dis-advantage.

There are several other retarded posts that need addressing, but I'm too lazy at the moment.
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I think he meant her INDIVIDUAL attack damage, which is small but adds up as he said, in COMBOS.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
If some random player came out tomorrow and started winning 6 tourneys in a row with Raphael, we'd see tons of people start preaching about how "Raphael was secretly top tier the whole time" or "Raphael has to be moved up the tier list a few places due to so-and-so's performance" when the character's tools haven't been changed at all.
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there are reasons because that won t happen....

there are 2 facts that some players ignore but is really wrong:
Some characters (see those you never see placing in tournaments and many of them) lacks fast mid threats.

Considering damage output, in scV in some matchup you can literally gamble crouching to avoid high because you don t risk that much if opponent doesn t have a fast mid that deals serious damage. (risk 20 to deal 120 seems good to me).

Some characters have almost only lows and highs mixups/threats :| (raph on his side suffers also steps so its really difficult to win if you have 1 out of 4 chances to deal few damage and risk to whiff paying half bar :|)

Second thing, this game is made of broken moves....every character has them....even bottom tiers.
Instead of balancing old scIV system they gave most character broken BE, CE and moves in general (for example imho raph CE is horrible broken*....being raph bad, most people don t notice that).

Also i think when link (or whoever was i forgot it) won with Ivy, watching vids, was clear that it wasn t due to the character brokenness.


Also:
What this game needs is a serious damage nerf for most characters, nobody should be able to win a round by guessing correctly 3 times , like NM or Mitsu.
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In fact asta can win guessing correctly only 2 times :D


*see i12 backstep, Tech Crouch, slightly tracking mid...


P.S. a note for astaroth players that ask for lows...
The mixup is MID/throws
If people stand you can THROW, if people crouch you go MID and asta for sure has plenty (also low throws).
He doesn t need lows (despite having a couple that are not bad that should be 3A and 1K i i remember the commands).
 
darkfender said:
(for example imho raph CE is horrible broken*....being raph bad, most people don t notice that).
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What makes you think it's broken? The only good thing about it is that it's pretty quick so it can be used in combos or to to try and interrupt slow attack strings. It scales really bad so winds up not adding much to his combos anyway. If you mean the invincibility that doesnt mean much seeing as it only kicks in just before the zoom in, and nearly all CE's are guaranteed to hit or at least come out right after the freeze.
 
Synraii said:
As much respect as I have for Raphael players, they will not win majors.
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ಠ_ಠ

Right now, I think most people's efforts would be better spent trying to make things work instead of saying why it definitely won't work, or why it will absolutely work every single time.

People only seem to account for what they know, what they don't know, or what they think - rare is it that I see someone that accounts for all three of these things, and when you miss one (or two or three, as I've seen some people do), you miss out on a vital perspective that is integral to fully understanding how things work in this game.

To re-iterate what many people have been saying - give the game some time, and we can seriously pick this discussion up in a year, when people are used to the new characters and game mechanics.
 
Omegazyklon said:
D) Lengthy combos are in no way an advantage. Think about this: If Viola's 3B raw did 74 damage and knocked as far, how would that be in any way different than 3B AAB 66B 66A+BB? The only difference (assuming good execution of course) is that the latter takes more time off the clock. That's it. With sub-par execution long combos turn into a dis-advantage.
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Not 100% true - while you're comboing your opponent, you're also recovering Soul Gauge, which is useful against opponents with solid guard pressure.
 
darkfender said:
i12 mid
TC backstep from frame 8 if i recall correctly.
The fact that cannot be abused because it needs to saved for stun combos makes it fair....
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That honestly doesnt make it sound so broken at all... There are MUCH scarier CEs in the game, Raphael's imo is not one of them. It's good because of it's speed, but everything else about it isnt too powerful. The backstep TC doesnt do much either. It certainly isnt like the other 4Bs and 44Bs in the game that take like 3 character steps backwards.

MntT77 said:
Not 100% true - while you're comboing your opponent, you're also recovering Soul Gauge, which is useful against opponents with solid guard pressure.
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Wasnt Algol banned just because he had incredibly long ball juggles? At least that's what the wiki says. Really long combos do a number on several things, your meter gain, the opponents meter gain, guard burst recovery, the opponent getting frustrated and generally psyched out. I think what seperates the two is that Algol's bubble juggle jungle was just an easy loop, while combos like Viola's have a genuine risk of being dropped due to timing or miscalculations.
 
Slightly off topic:

Who do you guys think the bottom 3 characters are?

I'm thinking Dampierre, Aeon, Ezio.

At least raphael has good speed and good pokes on his side.
 
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