Yoshimitsu Matchup Discussion

Vs Algol

6A,A- A,A. Can duck and punish end hit with 6K will also cut off 3rd hit in string. Can evade and punish with 214 A if predicted early enough.
6A,A, B- 6K /CE. Can step 22K punish last hit. Can A+K 3rd hit if close.
3A/ 3A,A- B,B. Can A+K second hit.
1A- 6K/ CE
4A,B- pushed too far to punish with B,B but if 1st hit is ducked can beat 2nd with 2A or MCF
6B,B- B,B. Can duck second hit and land 6K/ 3B /CE/ 4B. Can evade 2nd hit with 214A
6B,B:B- 33B will evade and interrupt Algol's fastest retaliations after protectile. Other neat things like 9B+K will hop over. 8A+B will hop over. MED B will evade easily.
3B- 6K/ CE
33B,B/3B,B- B,B. Can 4B+K evade second hit for 3B/CE
1B- A,A close. K will land from a bit further than A,A
4B- 3B/CE
4B,A- 3B/CE A+K interrupts 2nd hit.
623B- 3B/ CE
6K-A,A
6K,K-MCF. Can duck 2nd hit and punish with 3B/CE. Can evade and punish with 214A. Can interrupt with A+K.
BT 2K/FC K/2K- FC B
1K- 6K/CE
4K- A,A
4{K}- duck 6K/3B/ CE
A+B- K close. GI balls stuns him into a lauchable state.
6A+B- easily interrupted or stepped to Algol's back for launch.
2A+B- techincally punishable by 3B or CE but being in range is unlikely. Projectile is jumpable with 9B+K/ 8A+B
4A+B- K close
214A+B- run under launch for 3B back launcher into aB+K, 2A+B,66 or CE
B+K- 3B/ CE/ 4B
4B+K- 3B/CE/22K
2B+K- can evade protectile with 4B+K and launch with 3B. Can evade and punish kick with FLEA K
8B+K, B series- 3B upon landing
8B+K, K- step and dash in for 3B
FC8B-6K
FC A+B- WS B can evade protectile in same manner as others
WS B- B,B
WS K- B,B
WS K,K- CE/6K
WSK,{K}- easily steppable for 22K /CE
9K-MCF
66A- A,A
33A,B- 6K/ CE. Step 2nd hit for 22K
44A,B- CE/2B
22B- step 22K punish
11B- 6K/CE
11K- 6K/ CE
66A+B- can be stepped to Algol's left for 22K/ CE
66B+K-B,B
41236A- Can be ducked for CE/ 4B/ 3B.
41236K- CE/6K
41236A+B-4K,B/ CE range dependant
41236A+B,B- can step 2nd hit and CE/3B/4B
4A+B BE- can 8A+B4 over projectiles to punish
2136A+B,B BE- Step 2nd hit and 22K/CE
CE- 6K/CE range dependant.
 
Rayikin said:
wow.. i found a weird glitch fighting Xiba.
Click to expand...

REM B is borked. That thing whiffs just as much as Siegfried.

Examples: Trainer, Xiba vs Nightmare, stand off-center of Nightmare but touching and REM B - completely whiffs on a standing neutral opponent.

For a while, I would just run at Xiba's doing REM B because I knew it would whiff 90% of the time. But that's not the best strategy when they opt REM AK CE. :P
 
VS Hilde

A C3- can A+K 2nd hit.
B C1- A,A if within range
B C3 ,A- If blocked you can punish with 66A+B
6A,K- A,A
6A,K,A- 6K/CE. Can A+K the 3rd hit to repel if close enough. Can evade and punish with FLEA K.
6A,K,B- can interrupt 3rd hit with MCF comfortably. Can step 22K 3rd hit. Can A+K 3rd hit if you delay to allow Hilde to get close enough. At closest distance the 3rd hit will whiff if you are ducking.... odd...
3A- A,A. Can't step but and early enough 4B+K will put you behind Hilde.
3{A}- can 4B+K evade and punish with 3B/CE
1A- WS B/ CE
6B,B,B- can duck and punish 3rd hit with 4B/CE
3B,A- can duck and punish 2nd hit with 4B/ CE
3B,B- B,B. Can step and punish with 22K
4B- can step and punish with 22K.
1B- 6K/CE
BT 2K/FC K/2K-FC B
1K- 6K/CE
1K,K- A,A. Can 4B+K between hits but benefits are negligible.
A+B- 2B/ CE
{A+B}- Can step 2nd and punish with 22K. Steps seems better to Hilde's right. Can interrupt with MCF.
2A+B- CE/ 6K
2B+K- CE/ 6K
9B- MCF
9K- A,A
22A,A- can duck 2nd hit and punish with 6K or CE if you are fast enough.
11A- 6K / CE
44A- B,B
44B- 4K,B/6K/CE. options are range dependent.
44K- MCF
3B BE- can step and punish with 22K to Hilde's right.
66B BE- can step and punish with 22K to Hilde's right.
CE- CE/ 4K,B/ 3B. Can QS G glitch during animation to evade. Glitching to Hilde's right will give you her back for different options.
 
Thanks for all the finds Pocky/Oboro! Lifesaver, these.

For any vertical CE (Pyrrha, Maxi etc), you can actually 4B+K during the CE animation. You'll hear Yoshimitsu laugh at the same time as Pyrrha goes "I can't!" while the animation is still going on and then you can proceed to laugh yourself while you get a free back throw. Just don't try to buffer something like 3B after 4B+K before the animation is over or the system will read it as 4B+KBBBBB and you'll end up spinning away 1/3 your hp!
 
Frostheart said:
Thanks for all the finds Pocky/Oboro! Lifesaver, these.

For any vertical CE (Pyrrha, Maxi etc), you can actually 4B+K during the CE animation. You'll hear Yoshimitsu laugh at the same time as Pyrrha goes "I can't!" while the animation is still going on and then you can proceed to laugh yourself while you get a free back throw. Just don't try to buffer something like 3B after 4B+K before the animation is over or the system will read it as 4B+KBBBBB and you'll end up spinning away 1/3 your hp!
Click to expand...

Haha, is it that difficult for Namco to just lock button presses out of the freeze frame in a quick patch? That is shocking.

I'll be posting a Siegfried Stance Defense guide Heaton put together for me soon. I just need to make it all pretty.
 
^^ Any sign of the Siegried Stance guide mkl?

So I've been playing about with Xiba's REM stuff a bit, as I know nothing about the Xiba matchup and I've been getting my scrub-level ass kicked by some Xibas recently.

Looking at the options in the OP:
- 214A against it is great if they hang around long enough in REM for you to see it coming, but sometimes they'll go do the move out of REM as soon as they get into it, which doesn't give me enough time to get 214A out on reaction. Not sure if people are able to spot the transition into REM quicker than I am... but say you block what you thought was a 3{B}, it might turn out to be just a 3B, at which point you've probably just got your 214A blocked and are at -17.
- I set up the three options after REM in training mode and tried to consistently get A+K GIs. I could never block the A.K: is this just me? Either way I threw this option out as my reactions aren't good enough unless it's really telegraphed.

I don't think trying to duck the A of A.K is a good plan, as I can't react to the difference between B and A.K (though some people might be able to?), and if you guess wrong you get stunned for a whole load of damage. So, if you just block, I think the punishes are:
- A.K: 6K (nothing for just the A).
- B: nothing (he's at -6).
- K (you can block this on reaction, watch for him climbing up the staff): 6K

Edit: This is all assuming you don't 6K him out of REM to start off with.
 
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Juz said:
^^ Any sign of the Siegried Stance guide mkl?
Click to expand...

Lemme see if I remember everything correctly.

Siegfried v. Yoshimitsu (Stance Defense Guide)
As with most Sieg stances, the key is how he gets into the stance and what he intends do do. Always keep that in mind.

Base Hold (SBH):
Entrances:
AA(B) - On Block: +2/On Hit: KND
Very easy to just jump K this on reaction, although be aware of how long Sieg can delay the B. If you for some reason didn't punish and blocked, a simple 2A or iMCF will destroy all his options since he's so close. Asterisk on 2A is that if he doesn't SBH K immediately he gets a free aGI SBH B and sends you flying. Always choose iMCF.

(B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: +6/On Counterhit: +9
Be aware that if you've been hit by (B), he pretty much gets an i10 interrupt if you're not aware of that (SBH K). On CH Sieg can really pressure so try to defend adequately (refer to moves).

2(B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: +9/On Counterhit: +9
The same as (B) aside from the fact that if you get hit at all by 2(B) Sieg is at +9 and forces you into a bad situation. One of his better entries into SBH.

FC (B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: +8/On Counterhit: +8
Ditto, but only +8. Still makes SBH K i8 so don't try to get funny with iMCF if you're hit.

2(A+B) - On Block: +2/On Hit: KND
2A or iMCF will interrupt or knock him out of his stance.

44(B) - On Block: +6/On Hit: KND
It's so slow that you should be able to side step it in time and punish. If you do block it leaves you in full crouch so you could iMCF if you had perfect reaction time. This isn't the option I'd go with though. Blocking K will always leave Sieg at -14 whether it's K or K(BE) so your options will return.

Moves from SBH:
SBH K - i16 and -14 on block. I punish with BB, you can get more creative than that though.
SBH K(BE) - i16 and -14 on block. Ditto on punishment.
SBH B - i30 and -7 on block. This is his only safe way to leave SBH. No punishment possible without JG. If you JG enjoy your free launch copter trap.
SBH A - i28 and -19 on block. Has deceptively great reach and can mix up with A2 which is a feint. On block he is at your mercy with almost any punishment you desire.

Essentially just remember that if you're hit with any single (B) and he goes into SBH, you have no option to interrupt. Another thing to know is if you're hit by 2(A+B) he gets a full K (BE) guaranteed. Make sure to familiarize yourself with the animation so you won't get hit in a pressure situation and can make Sieg play Yoshi's game with a proper iMCF interrupt. Another thing to note is you can try to safe JG SBH K for a launch after a stance transition with pretty good success if they're just throwing it out as an interrupt immediately. Siegs will adapt to this though. Good Siegs know that Yoshi's 236B isn't a stab and is i60 so the best we can get alot of times is BB.
 
Heaton was going nuts this morning about Sieg stances:
[08:58:04] <%Heaton> Roulette itself is less viable and dumbed down
[08:58:13] <%Heaton> so if you ever roulette, you're basically going to find yourself trying to do SCH.
[08:58:25] <%Heaton> Siegfried is very much focussed on SCH because of how good SCH B is.

[08:59:00] <%Heaton> WR (B) is also kind of dumb. A tracking version of 3(B) that gives LNC at all distance, and guarantees full damage combos at any distane on CH.
[08:59:20] <%Heaton> Also does tiny bit more damage on its own, and guarantees NC WR (B) ~ SCH B on certain characters.
[08:59:57] <Sp1d3r> wait so you're complaining that certain moves are too GOOD?
[09:00:13] <Sp1d3r> or that his moveset isnt really spread out?
[09:00:26] <%Heaton> Well, they had to have something be bad to make you spend time in SCH.
[09:00:39] <%Heaton> SSH is pretty crappy, since it's a back step whiff punish stance
[09:00:49] <%Heaton> with the main whiff punish stepping you FORWARD into what you're trying to make whiff.
[09:01:11] <%Heaton> It's also death on block, making delaying it risky if you're unsure if you'll step into it.
[09:01:30] <%Heaton> SRSH is pretty gimmicky since you cannot hit grounded opponents with it whatsoever. Smart people will just sleep on it.
[09:02:03] <%Heaton> SBH is also really gimmicky now, and is basically only useful for yomi-GI and SBH k(BE) combos.


[09:02:25] <%Heaton> Essentially, instead of spreading useful moves and transitions throughout his moveset so all of his stances get a chance,
[09:02:29] <%Heaton> SCH SCH SCH SCH SCH SCH SCH SCH
[09:02:58] <%Heaton> Don't get me wrong. He's a very good character. He's just boring to me.

[09:04:31] <%Heaton> There are a lot of ways to kill his other stances, even off of good transitions.
[09:04:49] <%Heaton> SBH takes a huge hit if you enter into it on block, since SBH A and its cancel are trashy.
[09:05:13] <%Heaton> Just block for SBH K/(BE), wait for SBH A or SBH B, and either JG or jump accordingly.
[09:05:34] <%Heaton> There also isn't a single SSH transition you can't backstep out of, even if you had SC4 Raphael's backstep.
[09:06:03] <%Heaton> SCH does everything. The other stances are extremely specialized and don't necessarily do them well.
[09:06:22] <%Heaton> You had that in SC4, too, but SCH didn't infringe on the other stances and make them look bad.
[09:06:33] <Tha_Shogun> lol, well yea that's true on block the other stances do suck
[09:07:15] <%Heaton> And even with his insane reach, I don't think he's all that good for spacing.
[09:07:32] <%Heaton> His movement itself sucks too hard and a lot of his tools are very aggression oriented.
[09:07:34] <Tha_Shogun> 78% of the time if you are gonna be a stance it will be SCH
[09:08:13] <Tha_Shogun> but SBH does have SBH A(2) for a really good approach move
[09:08:33] <Tha_Shogun> I find it much better than WR A A(214, 2 whatever)
[09:08:33] <%Heaton> It's not so hot when you realize there are quite a few TJ moves that stuff both that and the cancel
[09:08:43] <%Heaton> and that it's the only long range move from SBH.
[09:09:05] <%Heaton> Yoshi, for example, can blow you up for it really hard. Get Deathcopter'd, son.
[09:09:09] <Tha_Shogun> ah so your speaking on block again or just in general?
[09:09:17] <%Heaton> If you're trying to approach with it.
[09:09:17] <Tha_Shogun> ah, ok
[09:09:29] <%Heaton> WR AA is actually insanely good.
[09:09:41] <%Heaton> Has the same problems on block, but it's mitigated sort of by WR (A) ~ SSH K.
[09:09:42] <Tha_Shogun> well usually, if not spammed, I find it very useful on the first attempt
[09:09:54] <%Heaton> It's more of a reflexive thing people will learn to do.
[09:10:32] <%Heaton> SBH A gives Siegfried too much for an opponent to just let you do it, I think.
[09:10:47] <Tha_Shogun> Ah...
[09:11:03] <Tha_Shogun> well I have to try it more offline, but so far, I've yet to see it get punished yet unless they anticipating it
[09:11:13] <%Heaton> See, but it's easy to anticipate.
[09:11:23] <%Heaton> "He's sitting in SBH at range where only SBH A will hit me."
[09:11:30] <%Heaton> "Hmm...I wonder what this sly fox is up to."
[09:11:47] <%Heaton> Then again, I'm always surprised by what my opponents do and don't anti.
 
Chief Hold (SCH):
Entrances:

BBA4 - On Block: -32/On Hit: -17
His worst transition into SCH, destroy him for using it. 8K if you can't read the low feint or real low.

3(B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: LNC
Every Sieg player's bread and butter transition. Getting out of this situation unscathed can be a pain in the ass but Yoshi has a secret weapon against it... QS 99B! Since the QS version will step and TC it will evade all of Siegfried's options right out of the gate and give a CH launch if he uses SCH A. Sounds too good to be true? Execution is a factor obviously. He can also use his evasion options to still get you with something like SCH 6 ~ SCH B. Be aware to not abuse this option if the Sieg player is smart enough to adapt. If you guess he is going to 6 ~ B rev up that 3B.

WR (B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: LNC
Treat this like you would 3(B) on block, but remember that it tracks much better than 3(B) if you're going to side step punish.

33_99(B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: LNC
Much like 3(B) but much slower (i28)

11_77(B) - On Block: -5/On Hit: +10
On block you can easily destroy any of his options. On hit, watch the fuck out and just try to defend this bad situation.

44B(B) - On Block: -11/On Hit: LNC
Another really bad transition into SCH. Punish him for using it.

22_88K(A) - On Block: -1/On Hit: +10
Both hits are high so try to avoid the whole mess by ducking the second hit (which you should be conditioned to do anyway) and punish.

22_88BB4 - On Block: -5/On Hit: KND
Not a good transition on block.

22_88k(A) - On Block: -3/On Hit: +17 (!!)
You can't do much to read this really, so just know it's -3 on block and your usual 99B response should be queued up. On hit, god help your soul, you are getting launched if he has meter.

66k(A+B+K) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: STN
On block treat it like you would a 3(B) transition. Duly note that you can step in between the two mid hits of the brave edge and punish though.

Moves in SCH:
SCH A: i18 -3 on block, +9 on hit. High/Mid
SCH K: i11 -7 on block, +3 on hit. Mid
SCH KK: i11 -14 on block, +2 on hit. Mid/High (duck punish)
SCH B: i18 +2 on block, KND on hit. Mid
SCH k(BE): i11 +10 on block, LNC on hit. Mid/Mid. (Step in between hits)

Siegfried is built around pressure in this stance. If you have no idea how to handle it, it can make your life a living hell. Stepping Sieg in this stance and getting hit can mean bad things since he's +9 but staying vertical to him means you're dealing with huge amounts of pressure with SCH B and a great interrupt in k(BE) and K. Since Yoshi has a sidestep move that TCs (99B) he can avoid this pressure entirely and force Sieg to call his move and punish it. This opens up a unique metagame between them. Always remember you can step k(BE) if you block the first hit and if you get hit by 22_88k(A) you are getting LAUNCHED son, fly high!
 
SSH:
Entrances:

(A) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: +10
On hit this gives him a guaranteed SSH K knockdown.

A+B - On Block: +4/On Hit: +2
This looks pretty good until you realize Yoshi can simply 3B him after the first hit on block. Try it. Abuse it. Love it.

22_88KA(A) or 22_88kA(A)- On Block: +2/On Hit: +14
Three highs in a row. You know what to do. If you happen to block it all a good rule of thumb is to QS 2A.


Moves in SSH:
SSH A: i23 -17 on block, neutral frames on hit. Reactable to a degree.
SSH AA: i23 -17 on block, KND on hit. Still reactable but the feint makes it more of a TJ punish.
SSH (A): i23 -17 on block, -2 on hit. A feint that goes into SRSH.
SSH B: i28 -18 on block, KND on hit.
SSH BB: i28 -18 on block, KND on hit.
SSH BBB: i28 -18 on block, KND on hit. This entire string can be interrupted in between hits or stepped. You get launched if you get hit since it's all a NC. It's also worthy to note that this move is not hit confirmable.
SSH BB(B): i28 -18 on block, KND on hit. Goes into Chief Hold if you don't punish him.
SSH K: i10 -14 on block, KND on hit. High so you can duck in prediction and punish. It becomes a good frame trap after A+B if you allow it all to connect on block.

Since there aren't a lot of transitions in this stance you should have to worry about how he got into it, especially if you know how to handle his two options outside of (A). This puts the focus on the actual moves themselves. None of them are particularly difficult to handle with proper defense and knowledge. Just realize K is high and a good frame trap.
 
SRSH:
Entrances:

ag(A) - On Block: -6/On Hit: KND
On block the -6 makes the entire stance useless against 2A/iMCF. On hit, remain dead and allow Sieg's 50/50 option to whiff.

4(A) - On Block: -4/On Hit: STN
On block, 2A/iMCF is another catchall. The stun will crumple and you can play dead on his following moves as well.

11_77(A) - On Block: -7/On Hit: STN
This move is i42 so you should ALWAYS be able to duck this high. Never get hit by it.

44(A) - On Block: -7/On Hit: -7
Another slow high (i31) which should still be ducked on reaction.

SSH (A) - On Block: -14/On Hit: +2/On Counterhit: KND
The feint A out of SSH. If you block it you can get some good damage. If you are hit with the low it still allows the iMCF/2A catchall to work.

Moves in SRSH:
SRSH A: i36 -2 on block, KND on hit. Slow high, duck and punish.
SRSH K: i19 -19 on block, STN on hit. A true 50/50 mixup with SRSH B.
SRSH B: i18 -21 on block, STN on hit. A true 50/50 mixup with SRSH K.

To prevent this magical mixup from coming into play be proactive about knocking him out of the stance when you see it being used. Many scrub Siegs get by on this mixup alone to great effect. Yoshi can also deathcopter after many of the transitions and blow up his whole life. Try it.


Thanks to Heaton for a lot of the juicier knowledge within all of these posts.
 
Oh Pocky Yoshi thanks Oboro a lot. But for real though, gotta get back to anti omega when I get the feeling.
 
Hey I'm back! I'll get cracking on the rest of them. I've been working on my motorcycle. Only playing SC 3 or 4 times a week. Things are leveling out now though. I'll be able to play more.
 
I was testing out this stuff on Viola (thanks for the start guys) and I was messing around with Viola's 8A+B.

The punishment listed only works with ORB. Without ORB, the 2nd hit becomes step-able to either side.

Also, the 2nd hit is very easy to JG on reaction (without ORB version), in case you need the meter boost and then it can also be punished same as with ORB version (3B_CE).

You can also GI the 2nd hit easily on reaction but it's hardly worth it unless it’s a round ender - nothing guaranteed after, hard to wall splat (not sure if possible) and ring out so unless they are v low on health I wouldn't bother. You can time a 3B depending on distance to catch them as they hit the ground for a total of 40 damage (24 from the fall) but that's about as good as it gets for 1/4 meter, save it :)

Anyhows, I've been messing around with 22K combos whilst trying to evade punish this move and came up with some interesting findings:

22K + …
  • bA - 88 damage meter-less damage, only works if step to the right. Efficient.
  • 6B BE RCC 3B a:B+K DNK 2K - works either side, but does slightly more damage if you step right (90). (1/4 meter).
  • 3B a:B+K DNK 2K… the DNK connects every time if you stepped right and is inconsistent if you step left (seriously, weird). Damage (88). Easy enough to do and good for position/ring outs.
  • 6B BE, 66A BE bA... 66A BE will whiff if you step left. The bA follow can be hard to get but it's circa 108 damage when you do. (2/4 meter).
  • iMCF 66A BE bA... Again have to step right to land this. Best bang for your buck - 106 damage (1/4 meter)
  • iMCF RCC 3B a:B+K DNK 2K… RCC 3B whiffs if you stepped right, so need to step left if you want to use this meter-less combo for ring position. Damage (88). Again, as with 3B follow up combo and left step, the DNK can miss.
  • 66B DNK 3B - hooray for a consistent combo to either side. Slightly more damage again to the right though (80 vs 82). Meter-less position combo.
  • 3A B A+B+K a:B+K - unfortunately DNK isn't consistent/going to hit with a raw 3A B A+B+K follow up to 22K so if using this combo I would go for a death-copter trap after.. Will have to gauge if the 1/4 meter cost is worth it, especially when you can copter trap meter-less as well.
So moral of the story:- Better to step this move to the right, use combo based on how you want to manage position/meter! JG the 2nd hit for extra meter/ raw CE punish! Oh and don't forget the 106 damage combo for 1/4 meter.

One last thing - something I like to do with 22K, a powerful reset/mix-up. You can usually 6B to reset then follow up with a rainbow drop. Works great on this move because the distance aligns to perfect max throw range and doesn't quite look like you will reach but you do. 109 damage in total if you catch them sleeping/expecting a combo to follow rather than a throw. However can only get the rainbow drop by stepping left for the 22K, right side ends up giving you side throw (104 damage total).


Now if only Viola players would use this move more often (not in combos) :P
 
mkl said:
Chief Hold (SCH):
...

3(B) - On Block: Neutral/On Hit: LNC
Every Sieg player's bread and butter transition. Getting out of this situation unscathed can be a pain in the ass but Yoshi has a secret weapon against it... QS 99B! Since the QS version will step and TC it will evade all of Siegfried's options right out of the gate and give a CH launch if he uses SCH A. Sounds too good to be true? Execution is a factor obviously. He can also use his evasion options to still get you with something like SCH 6 ~ SCH B. Be aware to not abuse this option if the Sieg player is smart enough to adapt. If you guess he is going to 6 ~ B rev up that 3B.
...
Click to expand...

Is there a good reason not to use 214A vs SCH? SCH B will track 33_99B if you do it to the wrong side, but it won't hit 214A... I prefer under pressure to not think about which direction I have to step, if possible. Obviously 214A TCs so you're safe from SCH A, as well. Hitting 214A DNK gives you more damage than 33_99B (as far as I can tell, only the B+K of the resulting string is guaranteed), plus you get a knockdown. I've been using 214A vs SCH in my games with good results, I'm just wondering if suddenly I'm going to come across a sieg who knows something that the ones I've played so far don't, and somehow punishes me for using it.
 
Juz said:
Is there a good reason not to use 214A vs SCH? SCH B will track 33_99B if you do it to the wrong side, but it won't hit 214A... I prefer under pressure to not think about which direction I have to step, if possible. Obviously 214A TCs so you're safe from SCH A, as well. Hitting 214A DNK gives you more damage than 33_99B (as far as I can tell, only the B+K of the resulting string is guaranteed), plus you get a knockdown. I've been using 214A vs SCH in my games with good results, I'm just wondering if suddenly I'm going to come across a sieg who knows something that the ones I've played so far don't, and somehow punishes me for using it.
Click to expand...

214A does work pretty well against most options. I think I prefer to get the CH launch for post a:B+K traps. And 99B seems to evade things really well in bizarre looking ways.
 
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