Attacks you may not be using enough

Bubbles said:
my bad looking at shen riis data is SEB B is -2


and SEB A is +2

SEB K is -9
Click to expand...

Yes
SEB A is +2 on block

SEB B is -2 on block

However, this is the tricky stuff :

The fastest move out of SEB is SEB A.

SEB A is 2 frames faster than SEB K, which in turn is 3 frames faster than SEB B (so thats 5 frames slower than SEB A).
this was tested using whiffed moves, then another collision move to test relative speeds..since I can't give you the actual frame data.
If you really want to know, i did raph 1 : 3~SEA~SEB~B/A/K, while raph 2: take the hit, whiff 4K, then do 2A/B/6B+K to trade. One little thing is that SEB will crush through the first hit of 8A+B one frame before impact....what this means I don't know.

From testing, both SEB B and A stop TCing with 2 frames left till impact (marginally small), but SEB K TC's the entire way (like 4B). I always thought there was a difference between SEB B and SEB A...

The big question is ..is the anti-side step property and the frame advantage of SEB A better than the NH 1/3 combo potential and soul gauge damage of SEB B ??
 
thats a good question

but i have to go with SEB B because its perfect 44B bait

but i guess it depends because SEB A kills step
 
If they step when you go into SEB, then use A, otherwise, use B is pretty much my basic use...mostly using it for gauge damage
 
Ok I figured out what I did wrong, I only tested it at neutral against nightmare and that's why I thought it tracked raph's right side well. In any case...

Some A tracking tests:
NM 11K blocked (-5 for NM)
far block > A will hit NM step G (Raph tracking his own left side)
close block > steppable both sides

Sieg 4K blocked (-5 for sieg)
A track raph left regardless of range, does not track right

NM agA blocked close (neutral)
normal step will be hit by A both sides (remember this is up close)

NM 3K hit (neutral) > NM step
A tracks Raph's left both close and far
A track Raph's right only up close

raph BB hit (small neg for the BBer)
A tracks raph left side

raph B hit (neutral)
A tracks raph left side

Summary:
A tracks raph's left better at far range but generally seems to track his left well. It tracks his right at close range against Nightmare at neutral frames and maybe others.
 
Tiamat: Did you test this with 8wr too? Keep in mind that step~G cannot be really a measure to determine a move tracking side. to test tracking you will have to also test with 8wr. I think it requires a character to be in a step~8wr movement after a certain point of A execution frames, many moves are like this, raph's frames are probably just weird.
 
I don't bother testing 8WR because 8WR is way less useful in actual match play compared to normal step and step G.
 
why? 8WR takes too long to get going unless you're trying to get around algol's bubbles or something
 
Hey guys. Noob question hour.

Is 4B "good" on block? Frame data and empirical knowledge says so, but for how much damage you get on hit, it shouldn't... Should... Should I be abusin' this? I mean it's high and steppable, but, that's a lot of damage... And I don't see y'all using it a whole bunch.
 
in general... step > 8WR nearly in most cases

the only time i use 8WR is really when i'm in far range... (but i still use step far range as well)

-LAU
 
Bubbles said:
lol

i cant do it offline either

offline i can 8wr better then step also

im so backwards.........
Click to expand...

im sure you can step at neutral.

There is a certain window (almost like a JF) during a recovery of raph's move that it's optimal to tap 2 or 8 to get a step. Practice that with 8K (whiff, hit, blocked it dont matteR)... it's one of the easiest moves to get a step off of .
 
8wr has different uses. aside from acess to 8wrmoves.

step only beats moves that started before or atm of the moment of step, beats more moves.
8wr beats a move always, unless this move tracks direction of 8wr.

so for example if your opponent is closing on you 8wr is a good way to limit his options. Step is safer, some people just spam it b/c it helps to limit opponents options. but 8wr is very useful, you just have to know when and why.

Also just keep in mind that consecutive steps (8~G, 8~G, 8~G) are extremely bad against advancing opp. (but you can react to dash) b/c start up of step is 5 frames. so what happens with each 8~G = 5 frames of vulnerability, 6 frames of step, 1 frame of G. where 8wr is all frames = step.
 
Belial said:
8wr has different uses. aside from acess to 8wrmoves.

step only beats moves that started before or atm of the moment of step, beats more moves.
8wr beats a move always, unless this move tracks direction of 8wr.

so for example if your opponent is closing on you 8wr is a good way to limit his options. Step is safer, some people just spam it b/c it helps to limit opponents options. but 8wr is very useful, you just have to know when and why.

Also just keep in mind that consecutive steps (8~G, 8~G, 8~G) are extremely bad against advancing opp. (but you can react to dash) b/c start up of step is 5 frames. so what happens with each 8~G = 5 frames of vulnerability, 6 frames of step, 1 frame of G. where 8wr is all frames = step.
Click to expand...


but if you G cancel your step... you won't be doing a full step... you'll be doing a half step

-LAU
 
I don't think it has anything to do with online, it really depends on who you're vsing.

8wr can get you murdered/RO'd vs Sieg, but step G and you not only get rid of alot of his frame traps and quicker stance options, but you're able to block the anti-step garbage as well.

Cervantes and Ivy with their solid step killers, step G is usually more rewarding then getting CH'd outta 8wr constantly.

Now vs a Maxi or a Cass? I can get away with 8wr alot more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back