Anti-Character Discussion

So i was playing an Astaroth last night, and I kept getting my ass whooped by his god damn body splash (6B+K). The move TC's(after !5), TJ's (after i15), and GI's mid A's and B's (after i15), which pretty much kills most of Maxi's stances. After a 3B, even though you are at +4, the move goes under RO A, GI's RO B, and beats out RO K. Bull$#!^.

I ran into a similar problem with Lizardman against RO (and probably other stances). His 66K can beat out any of RO's options, even at +4 after 3B. I found a way around this however, by using PSL2, which will take you out of range of 66K, giving an opportunity for RC punishment. I won't get a chance to test if this works against Asta's 6B+K until much later tonight, but i have a feeling its not gonna work. Anyone ran into this problem and found a way around it?

*edit: The move is -16 on block, and it comes out slow enough that i think you'd be able to cancel out of RO and block it after 3B. But then your punishment options are limited to BB, which isn't really enough to scare anyone. Is Maxi's throw REALLY i16 like it says in the frame data? Everyone else seems like they have i17 throws.
 
Simple problem to solve actually

3B psl4 evades them both. You get free RO A on Asta's back and in Lizard's face. And we love RO A don't we :)

and u can just use more 4B instead heh heh heh :p

At i16, punish with maxi's A+BG and mix stuff from there since RC A is pretty hard to stop.
 
Yeah, just tried PSL4 and it works. Still not sure if the how great that is, since if i do guess wrong and he just watches me PSL4, I'm gonna end up getting hit pretty hard. At least it's an option though, it sorta can keep Asta honest. Just wish i could get something that did a little more damage for making that guess.

Against Lizzy, i could have sworn his 66K caught my PSL4 attempts when i tested a while ago. Anyways, i'd still rather take the PSL2 RC to punish, since the damage payoff is better.
 
Well, i doubt u'd be punished for psl4 much at all, considering how good RO A is, and also i think when you use it, you would evade the attack way more than the opponent watching u do a psl4 heh.

I agree with the psl2 vs Lizzy. His 66K has range problems after the 3B stagger. Very viable, and recommend it as well.
 
I have been playing against a guy who is pretty solid with Xianghua and Yunsung.

As you already know they love to whore out 44B which is their jump out and jump back in attack which can be pretty annoying for Maxi.

Went into the lab with Maxi and researched ways to deal with this. Their most common setup for their 44B is to do standard attacks like BB, AA, etc., which of course they expect you to block it, then attack.

That's when I discovered 88_22B. I haven't used this move not because I didn't like it, but because I completely forgotten about it.

The huge step forward this move has is like whoa, and that's when I discovered this move works well against characters like Xianghua, Yunsung, and possibly even Raph (Haven't tested it on Raph yet).

Went back to fight him again and was having very good success against them with this move if you anticipate it correctly. If you don't hit them right away when they jump out with 44B, they generally jump right back into it. Even on block, you push them away, and you step back out of their range, so their is no worry for punishment.

I would say this move is matchup specific/situation specific and you may not want to use this against longer range characters since they might be able to reach you and punish you for it (This move is -17 on block), although that punishment may be reasonable. I'll play around with this move more and see what potential it has.
 
hmmm 11B works well for me vs those character's 4B...i can' help but feel it's faster and has more range. I don't like 22b at all, seriously
 
22B is a move I found noteworthy when I first started maxi but in actual matches I never use it. it's safer than the frame data suggests, though I didn't do much in depth safety testing with it. It really needs to do more damage for being so linear and slow. >_<

maybe still useful for hitting people with good retreating evades...not sure. I say do what works for you. maybe can try 88A or 1A since those have pretty good range even though they are As.
 
hotnikkelz said:
hmmm 11B works well for me vs those character's 4B...i can' help but feel it's faster and has more range. I don't like 22b at all, seriously
Click to expand...

11_77B is a good one too, but I consider it too risky upclose.

I don't consider it useful upclose since you can get punished for it if you anticipated wrong and they block it. Besides 11_77B is only 3 frames faster than 88_22B according to the data, and 11_77B is -15 on block and puts you in stance. I use 11_77B alot at a distance of course. I think 88_22B does more damage as well. I'll double check.

The reason I like 88_22B better for that situation is because it's safer on block, knocks down on hit so you can hurry and close the gap (Which is my goal), plus it has multiple hits so it's a temporary nunchuk wall of doom.

Also discovered it works excellent against Kilik's jump back move 4B+K.
 
Tiamat said:
maybe still useful for hitting people with good retreating evades...not sure. I say do what works for you. maybe can try 88A or 1A since those have pretty good range even though they are As.
Click to expand...

I tried those as well, but the thing is those moves will miss because they are single strike moves (Which means timing the hit is more strict plus the moves will miss if they decide to hang out with 44B at Mid range), don't advance Maxi forward as well as 22_88B, and they don't knock down.
 
I need some serious help vs Mitsu. He's just really good vs maxi. Here's my dilemna

His 4B is very trouble some, it retreats and evades to well in many of my loop mixups

His 3A is VERY troublesome, tracks, fast and CH combos. Very good for interrupting my loops. Many times my psl3 GI just plain fails to it. Hard to explain, but if i do any sort of looping i risk eating this on CH.

His MST 6-> RLC is VERY troublesome for me to stop. The range is absurd, and RLC B is hard to stop. Even when i block RLC B it's hard to punish properly. I mean i can get a 6A constantly, but it's not enough to stop them from using it. I know i can theoretically get 6A+B and 4BB, but geez, if i'm just slightly off it gets blocked. And blocking these often leads to me getting my soul gauge destroyed.

MST wakeups are very troublesome to deal with for me, i feel as if i'm constantly on the defensive trying to guess what's coming between MST cancel 2KB or 11[K], MST 6. RLC dashes etc etc..it's uugh.
There's more, but these are the major problems thus far
 
I tend to fare better against Mitsu when Maxi's out of stance.

66A tends to stuff anything Mitsu can pull out of stance if Mitsu tries to move.

Mobility is very useful vs 4B.

3A's punishable on block. Stance canceling in situations where Mitsu's likely to use it is really helpful IMO.
 
Kilik Killer

Ok guys. It's time.
I think we should put our minds together and share knowledge of ways to avoid getting hit by Kilik's ridonkulous moves.

As you all know, this is Maxi's worst matchup...Or at least it is for me, Kilik is the only one I have trouble with.

1st things first: ASURA. I'll list the properties (even though u should already know :^P )

Repels all mids except kicks
tech-jumps
is punishable by highs

Here are the basic attacks to stop asura happening to u (From neutral stance)

AA
aK
3A, B
6A
ws A
6A+B
K
3K (I know I left out some kicks, but I recommend only using the ones listed)


(8 way run)
99A_33A
33A, B
66B (4)
99bA_
66K
99K_33K

Now that we've gotten that outta the way, let's move on to the good shit. I mean,come on...How many maxi players really stay in neutral stance?

now as you know, it's possible for asura to knock you right of you're strings... so what can we do about that?

For starters: 4BBK
After the first B, simply make you his bitch if you follow up with the 2nd B.
Therefore, take Nikkels advice and perform 4B > LO A instead
You will get a CH and can follow up with the rest of the combo, or go for a throw if you're feeling lucky

4BG
If you perform 3B, you can simply hold G afterwords, and you can and you will block asura. Punish with 6A+B, or if you can perform B+K B: B: B: A GO FOR IT!

4BK
This is self explanatory...However, I wouldn't do this often.

4B (eehh forgot how to show command to sidestep from loop...but anyway) 8(the sidestep that goes into LI) B I know that was difficult to understand, but someone please put the correct command for me...
Anyway, side step that shit and punish with the LI B, and combo into BL KK

33AB
We all use it... but if a Kilik player is feeling really bold, he will repel and punish you when you attempt to perform the B. In that case, you can guard after the 33A, perform 6A+B, or B+K B: B: B: A

33bA_99bA A
I use this a lot, and if you attempt to go for the RC A, you can get punished. However, if you can successfully land 33bA > RC KK: K or you can perform 33bA > RC B just in case you're scared of using the sweep

Anything else you guys have feel free to post

Now for WR B

First off: if you throw a 6A > RO A out, you will get ducked and hit with this good old WR. In that case, change it up a bit, and throw out a RO B instead. Or, if you threw the RO A out there anyway, throw out the K to finish the combo and you'll trade with him.

As for performing the RO B instead, they might catch on, and attempt to punish you with 6AAA. In this case, just perform 6A PSL and do as you please after the repel.

As for trying to get inside, it took me a while to realize how easy it is to get by this move.
Please, please, please for the love of God...If you can- Sidestep and punish his ass with either 6A+B or B+K B: B: B: A to really make him STFU

I'll have more strats and ideas later...but for now I'm tired as hell and I'm going to bed.
 
Kilik Killer

Don't forget WL can punish Asura and wsB. However, you won't be able to reach WL BBBA if you GI wsB. So you'll have to use WL K instead.

And I do agree this is Maxi's hardest matchup.
 
Kilik Killer

You forgot one very important move R3dd.

4AB variations

If you anticipate Asura this is on of your strongest. On air hit you can nag more than 50 damage easy or more depending on how he AC, also if you outspeed him then you get him for close to a 70 damage combo, since 4AB is NC.

This is one of my favorite attacks easily. 60+ dmg for a NC, and virtually safe! i'll take that.
Between this and 33K i don't need anything else vs Asura. I stay in neutral a lot vs Kilik.

X is a terribly hard matchup as well. She can 1B+K me out of many of my strings, even when i hit. She is one of the few characters than stop 3B(hit) -> RO B. Amazing.
 
Kilik Killer

hotnikkelz said:
You forgot one very important move R3dd.

4AB variations

If you anticipate Asura this is on of your strongest. On air hit you can nag more than 50 damage easy or more depending on how he AC, also if you outspeed him then you get him for close to a 70 damage combo, since 4AB is NC.

This is one of my favorite attacks easily. 60+ dmg for a NC, and virtually safe! i'll take that.
Between this and 33K i don't need anything else vs Asura. I stay in neutral a lot vs Kilik.

X is a terribly hard matchup as well. She can 1B+K me out of many of my strings, even when i hit. She is one of the few characters than stop 3B(hit) -> RO B. Amazing.
Click to expand...

I like, I like.

Which one is X's 1B+K? Does it hit mid?
 
Kilik Killer

True...WL would work after the wsB, just have 2 delay it, same with the 4B.

As for that 3AB, i threw that in there, but I'm glad you explained it's greatness. I was thinking that if they were expecting the 3AB, they would try to wsB your shit, but 3AB 4 would smack em up. Niiiice...


whoa X? Really? I've beaten some good X players no problem...I noticed 4rm the other thread, she has a lot of moves that can b punished, so i'll check that out and try some new things against her
 
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