Maxi General Q&A

DustbusterGF said:
im seriously thinking SC4 BL A be SC5 3A because it brings back serpents bind Nc and its safer plus realistic. that way RC can be anything, anything new:) any good basic pokes, AA and BB would boost maxi tier, more so pokes that stun[SC3 BB].
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If we start going off realism half the cast is gone. Don't damn maxi to be "realistic" when giant suits of armor have the milky way in their belly and swing 4 1/2 foot swords like they're nothing.

Anyways bubbles really is a dick, and when I first joined I didn't believe people that said so because he was always cool with me. Later I realized he really can(and often chooses to be) an asshole but only to people who bring it on themselves. Same with Lobo.
 
I want 66A and 6bAA from SC2 back. The latter in particular was a great safe anti-step NC. 66A in SC4 is just straight garbage. I do like 44A,B though. One thing I thought might be cool would be to give 44A multiple enders. 44AA would be like 66A in SC3/4. 44A,B would be pretty much the same. The A option would function as an anti-step move with RO potential, but could be ducked. The B option would be steppable but hits mid and gives Maxi great advantage going into right outer. Maybe 44AK could be a quick low for small damage or something, but that might be a bit much.

I realize that all of this, of course, is wishful thinking.
 
@soakrates; that is the point thinking.
44A,B... just the B input.
i was thinkin Lo B K and an LO B B option, the second B input Being [44A, B ] just the B input as an option for people that duck the Kick. That way i could go LO B, B Into Ro???? even the SC2 LO B KG into the [44A,B] B - Ro would be a nice flow.
 
CassSophFan said:
Just accept it. Maxi isn't coming back for Soul Calibur 5. Close thread now.:P
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Troll posts are frowned upon. I forgive you this time for trolling in my thread, next time.......*shakes finger sternly*

You dont have to like maxi. Not many people do. But we do. thanx for stopping by tho!!

HRD
 
All "jokes" and assumptions aside about Maxi returning in SCV or not, if his SCV incarnation should be as weak as he is in SCIV(competitive view) then i would rather have him out of the game... Yeah, it´s really that sad.
 
I really don't think SC4 maxi is that bad, him being bad has more to do with SC4 being bad (IE rewarding lame ass riskless play)
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
You really think it has more to do with the SCIV engine being "bad"? Why exactly?
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I think I can answer this, as Bubbles and I have had this conversation many times-

The game rarely requires you to be proactive on defense. It is less an "interrupt opponents offense" and more of a "block and punish" or "block and stop string hits" kind of game. The fact that guarding is the most effective form of defense over interrupting in terms of risk/reward for the majority of the cast means that people have to take less risks on defense. The lack of +frames on block, the lack of good lows, all of these things rarely make an opponent have to "do something". Soul Gauge pressure only actually works for a small portion of the cast, so that doesn't apply to Maxi as well. Also, fuck Step-G. All forms of it, forever.

I would like to see the game reward proactive defense more than the passive defense it rewards now. Make people on defense DO SOMETHING.

-Idle
 
@IdleMind

I see... But you really think this way? I mean just defending over interrupting an agressive opponent? I mean, yeah many moves have beend towned down in this game compared to older ones, but against the few remaining very good characters with good moves, i recommend strongly an "interrupting" play stile with certain character. But maybe that´s just me ´cause i play with Asta and if i don´t try to interrupt here and then, i end up blocking all day since GI is almost unreliable in this game...

I think it´s really the stile of Maxi that is not good. He became more of a string based character in this game than someone with good single moves. Hell, why is his AA even 14i? In former SC´s i used AA and 2A a lot to interrupt, and 2A is nowadays so bad too(not only in Maxis case for sure) I think if Maxi was a little faster and/or had good interrupt moves like Asta 6K + guaranted follow up on CH, he would be at least viable. So i rather think it´s a mix of what they(Project Soul) did to many characters in general/or let´s say with the engine(like dumping 2A´s down) and Maxis own lack of good and fast single moves.
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
@IdleMind

I see... But you really think this way? I mean just defending over interrupting an agressive opponent? I mean, yeah many moves have beend towned down in this game compared to older ones, but against the few remaining very good characters with good moves, i recommend strongly an "interrupting" play stile with certain character. But maybe that´s just me ´cause i play with Asta and if i don´t try to interrupt here and then, i end up blocking all day since GI is almost unreliable in this game...

I think it´s really the stile of Maxi that is not good. He became more of a string based character in this game than someone with good single moves. Hell, why is his AA even 14i? In former SC´s i used AA and 2A a lot to interrupt, and 2A is nowadays so bad too(not only in Maxis case for sure) I think if Maxi was a little faster and/or had good interrupt moves like Asta 6K + guaranted follow up on CH, he would be at least viable. So i rather think it´s a mix of what they(Project Soul) did to many characters in general/or let´s say with the engine(like dumping 2A´s down) and Maxis own lack of good and fast single moves.
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Honestly, I do think this way, and it's a huge flaw in the game from my perspective. Also, I honestly do not want to see Maxi go back into a good "single moves" type of character. His single moves ought to facilitate his loop play, and his loop play ought to be strong enough to force proactive defenses. That would require, however, the hands of a careful designer looking at the big picture.

-Idle

PS: I also play Asta... but I also play Cass... and 4~5~G is so so so so effective with her... and I also play Mitsu where I block things that are minus enough where the opponent can't step then run a mixup. I'm not "doing" anything with the latter two characters. I'm not being "forced" to do anything either. It's simply alot of my-turn your-turn situations.
 
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IdleMind said:
Honestly, I do think this way, and it's a huge flaw in the game from my perspective. Also, I honestly do not want to see Maxi go back into a good(especially damage wise) "single moves" type of character. His single moves ought to facilitate his loop play, and his loop play ought to be strong enough to force proactive defenses. That would require, however, the hands of a careful designer looking at the big picture.

-Idle

PS: I also play Asta... but I also play Cass... and 4~5~G is so so so so effective with her... and I also play Mitsu where I block things that are minus enough where the opponent can't step then run a mixup. I'm not "doing" anything with the latter two characters. I'm not being "forced" to do anything either. It's simply alot of my-turn your-turn situations.
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Mmmmh, correct me if i´m wrong, but that sounds like your playstile is heavily focused on mind/guessing games. Sure, guessing games are an important part in fighting games, but from my experience, the best way to "play" with your opponent is to use very good single moves(preferable in the mid/low section) and force almost all the time a 50/50 situation. All things that go beyond that can be imo to difficult over a longer playtime or if you face opponents that are vastly different. My oppinion:

"In simplicity lies the key to victory"... At least for me.

And with SCIV Maxi, i can´t play in such a way... I just couldn´t go around his loop/string based stile to be really effective.

But maybe it´s just me getting more stubborn after all the years when it comes to thinking about different ways to be effective in fighting games/competitive games. But with that said, Maxi was still never really an effective character in SCIV tourneys... Over all these years.
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
Mmmmh, correct me if i´m wrong, but that sounds like your playstile is heavily focused on mind/guessing games. Sure, guessing games are an important part in fighting games, but from my experience, the best way to "play" with your opponent is to use very good single moves(preferable in the mid/low section) and force almost all the time a 50/50 situation. All things that go beyond that can be imo to difficult over a longer playtime or if you face opponents that are vasty different. My oppinoin:

In simplicity lies the key to victory... At leat for me.

And with SCIV Maxi, i can´t play in such a way... I just couldn´t go around his loop/string based stile to be really effective.

But maybe it´s just me getting more stubborn after all the years when it comes to thinking about different ways to be effective in fighting games/competitive games. But with that said, Maxi was still never really an effective character in SCIV tourneys... Over all these years.
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I can't put this any more bluntly: Not every character should be able to play the "simple poking" style of gameplay. In a perfect world, there ought to be ONE character who can do this far more effectively than others in any give fighting game. In this way the character informs the effective style of play; hence-

Maxi has loops. That's his "schtick". His gameplay style should promote the use of those things, effectively, within the engine.

To draw another example: Asta has very good throws. His gameplay style should promote the use of those things, effectively, within the engine.

The only difference between Asta and Maxi is, Asta's inherent design works and doesn't clash with the engine of the game. Maxi's does.

-Idle
PS: Alot of people are stubborn and cling to the "simple/effective" style because for years in fighters, the best characters are the ones whom you could reduce down the number of moves they use to the least amount in the most effective way. The reductionist approach. My stance is, the reductionist approach should be designed out of games, to make the games more interesting.
 
I'd rather Maxi be complex, fun, and bad than simple but effective (though I wish he was good too!). The whole reason I started playing him in SC4 was because I got bored with the overly simplistic gameplay the majority of the characters have. He plays so little like the other characters that it feels like he's from a different game imo.
 
I disagree of course. I think the exact opposite. The game rewards aggression in an odd way.

Project soul designed SC4 to be less turtle friendly. To be more exciting through aggression.

Basically in SC4, turtling gets punished with SG damage. Block punishment sucks because your fastest moves do minuscule damage...this makes players take more risks. A good amount of moves don't give advantage on hit, so your opponent can attack after getting hit. If you step G(defensive) you don't have enough time to whiff punish, so step attack(aggressive) although risky is better. GI's are more of an aggressive tool since they give SG damage. Forward dash is quick to deny spacing from turtlers.

In addition, blocking everything for instance amy's mids and her 2B+K isn't balanced in risk/reward. SC4 is played in a sacrificial way, people sacrifice taking a small amounts of damage to avoid a big a lose in damage. Which means never blocking low. It's a good thing most fast lows don't give advantage on hit so the defender can still attack.

Maxi suffers because he has too many negative frames. So his strings are easy to interrupt and his moves are easily punishable. But if his strings were a true 50/50 mixup, his SG damage theoretically might have been broken. However, as it is now the defender can always be aggressive when fighting Maxi. Because Maxi is supposed to be an aggressive character, I believe he was nerfed because of the addition of SG damage.
 
Soul Gauge is lame. I'd rather have people turtle against me than have to deal with crappy blockstun all the time. There are better ways to encourage offensive play: more +frames on block, better guard breaks, better throws, smaller stages, getting rid of step-g and so on. SC4 is balls on toast.

Back on topic, I understand why people want to make stances better, but I don't want to see basics suffer as a result. Maxi (and probably every other stance-based character) needs solid basics to get the stance game going. In SC1 he had basic but dangerous moves like BA and 4BB to lock down the opponent. Lei Fei in VF5 has safe, tracking mids, a fast launcher and annoying lows. Hell, Lei Fei doesn't even need stances to do big damage and he's probably the best example of a stance character done right in a fighting game.
 
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