Maxi General Q&A

DustbusterGF

[09] Warrior
I disagree of course. I think the exact opposite. The game rewards aggression in an odd way.
In addition, blocking everything for instance amy's mids and her 2B+K isn't balanced in risk/reward. SC4 is played in a sacrificial way, people sacrifice taking a small amounts of damage to avoid a big a lose in damage. Which means never blocking low. It's a good thing most fast lows don't give advantage on hit so the defender can still attack.

Maxi suffers because he has too many negative frames. So his strings are easy to interrupt and his moves are easily punishable. But if his strings were a true 50/50 mixup, his SG damage theoretically might have been broken. However, as it is now the defender can always be aggressive when fighting Maxi. Because Maxi is supposed to be an aggressive character, I believe he was nerfed because of the addition of SG damage.
People dont even attempt to block lows, theyll take 1A, 1K, 11A 22k but if i do a knock down version, Bl Kk, RC k, 3A+K, Ro K, 2A they bitch. online frame crap aside. if i dont see you attempt to even block 1A;) ill use it a again. they dont fear it so why block it. fucking idiots dont bitch about nightmares low game.

Facts about me online i dont like grabing but you can if u want just dont over abuse because offline i break that shit consistantly , i dont grab unless its of a wall combo, fakes, stun combos and mixups. i would rather physical hit you till your dead cause u cant block. most people who grab do it in a panic or just dont know how to stop or control your gameplay style. exclude Asta, rock, even ivy.
 

DustbusterGF

[09] Warrior
Soul Gauge is fantastic.... to many haters. this instrument proved to me that most americans are stupied. Theres attacking your opponent for damage and attacking their guard. Plus you can also test their overall skill with it. if i can CF you consistantly you suck, more so if i do it to finish the match. Fact: You cant CF a good Player[PrO] and pros dont take the last hits for free just so you dont CF them...:)ok send the noob hate mail.:)
 

WARUI_NE

Prettier than you
this game is bad because it rewards really lame defense not even the type of defense that takes more then basic knowledge of the principles of defense. One problem is Step G, You don't even have to commit to evading %30 of a movelist. Think about that ,%30 of a movelist is useless to a nearly risk free option. Second problem is the lack of decent lows, if you are going to play a turtling style why ever duck outside of throw range unless you are against amy,mitsu,cervy,or yoshi (lol or maxi BL)? Most long range lows are negative on hit which stunts offense IE rewarding the defender to doing something less risky. How are you supposed to make a pressure character work with nothing to make someone antsy? Answer is you can't look at taki talim and maxi...all are trash. Frames sucking in SC4 doesn't really apply to maxi per say since his pressure tools make sense framewise.

For all the reasons mentioned above I prefer RO to every other stance. RO A controls step G and punishes someone who just holds G by either putting them in a 50/50 mix up or letting me mount pressure, whilst being a safe option on block. RO B is the way to punish someone for getting antsy. You have to make them want to attack. RO K is anti 2A and anti turtle at the same time because of all the options in the RO K series

Edit: how is 2A in this game bad at all? -4/+2/+8 thats pretty damn good........Thats like your best interrupt unless your character has some super awesome CH fisher, BECAUSE ITS SAFE. Think about all you can do at +8 at that range, all that from a safe CH fisher

Edit EDIT: reductionist is not how to play maxi you need to use most of his moves because all of his stance moves have very defined uses. The stances are versatile and robust the moves themselves are not. They are designed for one purpose. The rest of the moves in the stance are there so you have options in a wide variety of situations IF YOU GUESS RIGHT. Thats why you should never rule out escape PSLs, They are there as an extra measure of defense IE last resort

Edit Edit Edit: calling people who get CF'd bad is beyond silly I run a CF game with raph and CFs are my leading cause of round wins, also yes CF is a great system, It was just poorly implemented in SC4. Why does a character with mix ups range and pressure have a great CF game? (voldo) But why does a character all about pressure with no mix ups have such a bad one? (taki)

more edits: Kingace you are completely wrong CF is far less effective when people punish consistently. Most characters CF games are madly unsafe. SC4s block punishment being minuscule is a byproduct of lower damage across the board
 
  • Like
Reactions: HRD

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
I can't put this any more bluntly: Not every character should be able to play the "simple poking" style of gameplay. In a perfect world, there ought to be ONE character who can do this far more effectively than others in any give fighting game. In this way the character informs the effective style of play; hence-

Maxi has loops. That's his "schtick". His gameplay style should promote the use of those things, effectively, within the engine.

To draw another example: Asta has very good throws. His gameplay style should promote the use of those things, effectively, within the engine.

The only difference between Asta and Maxi is, Asta's inherent design works and doesn't clash with the engine of the game. Maxi's does.

-Idle
PS: Alot of people are stubborn and cling to the "simple/effective" style because for years in fighters, the best characters are the ones whom you could reduce down the number of moves they use to the least amount in the most effective way. The reductionist approach. My stance is, the reductionist approach should be designed out of games, to make the games more interesting.
But what if a player likes Maxi but doesn´t want to GUESS!? right all the time when using his stances thus deosn´t want to use them maybe at all? Shouldn´t there be a way for people to play characters in different ways? I know that i don´t like a loop heavy Maxi, even if it was effectiv. I want a versatile, yet very good Maxi, and i don´t see that there is a possibility to accomplish this by only his stances/loops. Of course with the exception of a "broken looping Maxi", like if almost every move from which he can transition into an another stance gives him + frames on block or something extreme like that.

I even think that pre-patch Maxi was good enough due to his CF game. That must be the reason why they nerfed many of his moves so much, just think of a SCII/SCIII Maxi in SCIV with pre-patch CF game... lol!!

But it seems that they did not consider the outcome of some characters after the patch... Even if they intended to patch the game no matter what(what it looked like all the time). They just failed hard on this one...

PS. SCIV 2A´s may be good for a game like SCIV, but they were nerfed, no doubt. They are slower and the TC frames were "destroyed"(only aplly after 8 frames).
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
uh if you don't watch to guess play DOA
Sry, but i don´t understand this statemant. What has this to do with DOA anyway? DOA(especially DOA4) is a game that focuses heavily! and almost only on guessing game , and it shouldn´t come out as a surprise that i don´t like such a game at all.
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
how is a counter that is 22 frames long and counters high mids and lows "guessing"
What? There is noch such über-counter in DOA4. There are the universal counter holds every character has in four directions for four types of attack(high, low, mid kick and mid punch). And some characters have unique parrys that won´t guarantee anything but will parry moves that go high and mid, or low and mid for example.

DOA4 is an extremly on guessing game focused piece of ...... Believe me.
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
Thank You For Saying This
...:)
You know, i used to hate CF in SCIV... But in Maxi´s case it made perfectly! sense and looked cool! Weaken his strings/normal moves ´cause of a ridicolous and aweseome CF game!Not really my type, but hey, new game new strategies.

And then the patch came, and nothing was as it should have been in Maxi´s case...
 

KingAce

HERMITISM
I will say this, when I did not understand Maxi's frames...I thought he was straight up unstoppable.
I always felt this character benefited the most in having the SC2 cancels, and it looked brilliant.
 

sephalump

Video games kill people
I die to CF's all the time. I'm pretty sure I'm not bad lol. Cf can happen all the time to someone who is mindful of frames and knows his opponents options so hesitates.
 

IdleMind

BANNED FOREVER
But what if a player likes Maxi but doesn´t want to GUESS!? right all the time when using his stances thus deosn´t want to use them maybe at all? Shouldn´t there be a way for people to play characters in different ways? I know that i don´t like a loop heavy Maxi, even if it was effectiv. I want a versatile, yet very good Maxi, and i don´t see that there is a possibility to accomplish this by only his stances/loops. Of course with the exception of a "broken looping Maxi", like if almost every move from which he can transition into an another stance gives him + frames on block or something extreme like that.

I even think that pre-patch Maxi was good enough due to his CF game. That must be the reason why they nerfed many of his moves so much, just think of a SCII/SCIII Maxi in SCIV with pre-patch CF game... lol!!

But it seems that they did not consider the outcome of some characters after the patch... Even if they intended to patch the game no matter what(what it looked like all the time). They just failed hard on this one...

PS. SCIV 2A´s may be good for a game like SCIV, but they were nerfed, no doubt. They are slower and the TC frames were "destroyed"(only aplly after 8 frames).
If you don't want to guess, there are 20-something other characters in this game. A style IS the character. The style ought to inform the style of play. If you can play the style of play you want with every character; then you only actually have 1 character. That is lame.

-Idle
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
If you don't want to guess, there are 20-something other characters in this game. A style IS the character. The style ought to inform the style of play. If you can play the style of play you want with every character; then you only actually have 1 character. That is lame.

-Idle
Yeah, you are right, i could use another character(which i am already doing since years) and i didn´t say that i am completly against guessing game, hell you always need that in fighting games to be good. But in Maxi´s! case it is to much... At least for me. And what is the problem if a character is that good/versatile that you can play him almost like anyone else or in a completly different way? I want a more versatile Maxi... Not just looping. For me, that´s not versatile at all. Just... individual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HRD

IdleMind

BANNED FOREVER
Yeah, you are right, i could use another character(which i am already doing since years) and i didn´t say that i am completly against guessing game, hell you always need that in fighting games to be good. But in Maxi´s! case it is to much... At least for me. And what is the problem if a character is that good/versatile that you can play him almost like anyone else or in a completly different way? I want a more versatile Maxi... Not just looping. For me, that´s not versatile at all. Just... individual.
If everyone is versatile, then nobody is versatile; i.e. if everyone is special, then nobody is special- It becomes the new baseline. If only a few characters are versatile, and others aren't, you gain a balancing disparity. A character's style IS the character. That is what makes them individual.

Individual > Versatile.

Versatility is the go-to thing for people who want their character's to be better; but in the end they don't realize what they are asking for is to make the characters all the same under the hood. Siegfried players whine about un-safety too. So do most people about their characters. They never take into account what the character IS; only what they WANT. They want to be safe AND have a stance roulette game. What they don't realize is, once you make a character able to whore out his basics, you don't NEED anything else. The same thing would happen to Maxi.

Just play a different character instead of asking for all character's to be the same, which is essentially what your saying.

-Idle
 
  • Like
Reactions: HRD

WARUI_NE

Prettier than you
Why don't you just play another game since this one requires a lot of guessing in general to be high level
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
If everyone is versatile, then nobody is versatile; i.e. if everyone is special, then nobody is special- It becomes the new baseline. If only a few characters are versatile, and others aren't, you gain a balancing disparity. A character's style IS the character. That is what makes them individual.

Individual > Versatile.

Versatility is the go-to thing for people who want their character's to be better; but in the end they don't realize what they are asking for is to make the characters all the same under the hood. Siegfried players whine about un-safety too. So do most people about their characters. They never take into account what the character IS; only what they WANT. They want to be safe AND have a stance roulette game. What they don't realize is, once you make a character able to whore out his basics, you don't NEED anything else. The same thing would happen to Maxi.

Just play a different character instead of asking for all character's to be the same, which is essentially what your saying.

-Idle
Of course everybody could be versatile and "special"... yet individual!

I didn´t say that i want every! character to be the same! But their should be more ways! to play all characters effectively. Asta for example is versatile for having great throws, good ring out/wall game and range. Sophie for insane damage, awesome mid-moves and punishment+speed. I could continue this list until i reach the lower ones... The low tiers.

And what is effective with Maxi? Especially if you want to play with him in more ways than just poking in high level play? His loops aren´t effective in high level, most of his single moves aren´t effective at all, his throws are weak, RO-game not that good... You get it. Project Soul tried indeed to make each and every character more individual since SCIII... And we all know what happened here and there because of that to some characters. If that´s what it costs to make characters more indivdual, or let´s say "making them, what they are supposed to be", then i say fuck! individuality in fighting games...

Prove me wrong SCV... PLZ prove me wrong.

Why don't you just play another game since this one requires a lot of guessing in general to be high level
Uh, is this really a serious question? Well, to be honest, which fighting game nowadays doesn´t!? require lots of guessing game in high level? I can not think of a single one(3D bemus). Maybe Tekken6 but i don´t like that game for various reasons...
 

IdleMind

BANNED FOREVER
If that´s what it costs to make characters more indivdual, or let´s say "making them, what they are supposed to be", then i say fuck! individuality in fighting games...
Tekken 6 is right over there. 40 characters of poke-space-launch-wall-carry fun fun fun fun fun!

-Idle
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
Tekken 6 is right over there. 40 characters of poke-space-launch-wall-carry fun fun fun fun fun!

-Idle
Yep, that´s true. One of the reasons why i don´t like the game. But T6 is an extreme example for a balanced, yet boring fighting game ´cause almost all the characters are played in the same way...
 

IdleMind

BANNED FOREVER
Yep, that´s true. One of the reasons why i don´t like the game. But T6 is an extreme example for a balanced, yet boring fighting game ´cause almost all the characters are played in the same way...
Then it seems your at an empass at what you actually want, because from the sounds of it, you don't want to play Maxi. You want to play Amy in a Maxi suit.

-Idle