Ivy Match-ups and Anti-Character strategies

Yurimatsu said:
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<<<edited by dittO>>>
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- The following table is an effort to determine Ivy match-ups in SCIV
- Online play or Special VS is NOT a factor to determine ANY match-up
- Anyone can post his/her opinion as long as it is followed by an explanation
- Do not hesitate to state your opinion, even If you have to disagree with someone else
- If you are not 100% certain about a particular match-up, you don't have to state your opinion
- If you have any experience VS certain characters played by advanced/skilled/well-known players, don't hesitate to mention it

...

This post will be updated weekly (probably)
Click to expand...

My opinion is given in the French match up chart given by hayate (some exception however).
I'll try to give some more information here. Sry for my english...

IVY VersuS ===>

- Algol: ???
don't know at all, Algol is banned in France

- Amy: 6-4
Amy don't do much damage compare to ivy. She can hold pressure on ivy, but it's impossible to pressure her a whole round. She is most the time safe, but she can be easily side step and one or two combos are enough to make as much damage as amy during her pressure game. CS and SS are great here cause it can be used as a great "punisher" tool and again the damage are great compare to amy. An other good point to ivy is amy's low range, ivy's zoning is very strong against amy.
I played an Amy (not famous at all) player during a final, but it was a small event, and also sometimes against the same guy for some offline game. So i must admit I don't have experience against this character.

- Astaroth: 6-4
Ivy zoning game destroy astaroth. So, he is forced to bullrush/throw. If you don't duck and unthrow B most of the time, Astaroth is yours. CS/SS are not a good option here cause Asta will abuse his bullrush to came close to you and to break any throw. But it's easy to put him out of throw range, and there are some move overpowered against him (like 9gB or WP 3A) cause he can't punish them. Against ivy SW 2A+K Asta can only throw to punish... And Critical Finish can be used here is the Asta don't want to come and take risk.
I played against a lot of Astaroth both online and offline. The most famous of them is Saitoh.

- Cassandra: 6-4
Again, zoning is the key here in my opinion. And CS/SS are also very good in this match up, no need to abuse them but if the cass player fear them, he will take more risk than necessary and you can easily take advantage of that.
I played lots of Cassy online... and only one offline... long time ago... Must admit I don't know a lot about this match up. That's just the way I feel it.

- Cervantes: 5-5
Here, zoning is not so easy cause iGDR will be the move to fear. Cervy can iGRD on lots of ivy WP move to punish her, and that's a real problem to her. CL isn't bad against cervy but it isn't good neither. In my opinion SW is the most viable stance against him but then he will have more range than ivy... and more option; however ivy does more damage than him.
I played some Cervy both offline and online (real cervy i mean, not teleport/BBB cervantes) and most of the time I had trouble against them but in the end I always won so...

- Darth Vader: Are you guys play StarWars or SoulCalibur ?

- Hilde: 3-7 in my opinion on open area, and 6-4 on closed/semiclosed area
open area, one mistake -> RO
I don't know for u, but i'm not a machine. I can't play a whole match without being side step at least one time, or ducked on one af my throw. C3B is not the real problem here but C3A is SO overpowered, it will destroy most of your option and even if you block she still has advantage....... SW 1K is the only weapon against Hilde's charge. But you need to be close to Hilde, and she's not going to let you come that close so easily...
close area, one mistake -> low damage
You are going to be hit but the damage are weak. You can rush on her and mix SW1K / throw or use WP/CL and try to CriticalFinish her and it's possible if she don't try to attack you. If she tried, then SW1K and throw her.
I played some Hilde both online and offline. I also play Hilde myself. And most of the time during offline match with good player, the winner is choosed at the stage selection...

- Kilik: 6-4
Kilik will always tried to fight at mid range cause he can't fight against ivy at far range, ivy as many more tool than him. At close range, ivy CL/WP 66K beats kilik asura. kilik Asura beats ivy 9gB. ivy 9gB beats kilik WS B. kilik WS B beats ivy CL/WP 66K. But the problem for kilik is that all ivy's option are more powerfull (WP/CL 66K CL 4B SW 214K / 9gB SW 214K).
At mid range, he can fight her very well.
CS/SS are not so good here cause,the best kilik tool (WS B and asura) beat throw. But it can be interessant to simulate (some move) "fake" throw in order force him gambling between asura and WS B and so you will use 9gB or 66K.
I played against Hayate, lots of FT10 (5 or 6 i think).

- Lizardman:
I don't really know here cause I have SO MUCH trouble against this character.
I loosed against every Lizard in the world so I can say anything...
Maybe 6-4 cause CL 214B destroy Lizard stance, and WP game can be very annoying for lizardman but can't say for sure.

- Maxi: 7-3
I never had trouble against maxi. I don't know, all seems so simple against him, i just watch him move for a stance to another with very low damage and when I find a whole in his pressing I just use my more damaging combo and that's all. And he is forced to attack me cause he can't fight at all at far range nor even at mid range ! He can't event punish me well... Maybe I'm wrong but it really seemed as an easy match up for ivy.
I played lot of maxi offline and none online (!).

- Mitsurugi: 6-4
zoning, zoning, zoning. Mitsu can't do anything at all at far range, and at mid range ivy as allways some moved which are better than mitsu's. Once Mitsu is close everything all you have to learn is just ukemi 2K,B. All the rest is not a great problem. Lot's of unsafe move, lot's of high, lot's of move side steppable. So mitsu will try to 2K,B u or to throw u... One 2K, B blocked and it's a free launcher, and throw can be unthrowed.
That's really hard for Mitsu in my opinion. But 2K,B is really a great move so...
I played lot of Mitsu offline and one of my sparring's main charc is Mitsu.
Cdric and Lee are the famous mitsu player I fight with.

- Nightmare: 6-4
I already give some explanation.
I will add that, if Night don't take risk and play unsafe against ivy, he will lose to critical finish.
I played against Keev.

- Raphael: 6-4
Poor raphael ! He really don't like side step, and ivy CL is really strong on this particular point.
Most of the raphael's command list can be side step... That's really hard for him.
And ivy does more damage than him.
However, at far range raph 236B can help him a lot to punish whiff move or even to come closer.
At close range, 44B is one of his best tool to avoid most of ivy SW move.
And his critical finish game is really really strong, but that's not enough...
One of my sparring partner is a good raphael player.

- Rock: 9-1 in my opinion
WP stance > Rock
There is absolutely nothing Rock can do against an Ivy in WP who decide zoning.
His throws are a joke: 50 damage !!! Ivy = 100 !!! Who is the big guy here ?!?
And if Ivy decide to fight him at close range she still has so much advantage on him, 6K and 4B are his only tool to expect make some damage...
I don't know good Rock player at all except from LAU (but I never challenge him of course)...
So guy here play Rock as second character(saitoh for example), for fun, or against hilde only(pantocrator, this guy kill my hilde with his Rock at the last team battle event lol); and I also play him a little...

- Seong Mina: 7-3
Everything Mina can do, Ivy can do it better. At any range, in any stance.
Mina has good lows..... but that's all.
The only Mina player here leave her now for yunsung... I try her sometimes, but never challenge a single Mina.

- Setsuka: 6-4
Maxou (setsuka player) disagree with me here. For him it's 4-6...
My opinion is that, the two character are very strong and very close one to each other, but ivy as some more usefull tool than setsuka. For example, ivy step is really better than the one from setsuka. Ivy throw had more range. Ivy Critical Game is better. It's a fact that Setsuka punish so much better than ivy, but there are not lot of move to punish. At close and mid range, the two characters had lots of good option but at far range ivy is better. 9gB is a great move here cause he will hit setsuka in a lot of situation because of her bad step. On wake up game, I think ivy is better too because of SW214K who force setsuka to wake up.
One of my sparring play setsuka. Maybe i'm wrong cause I think to much about "his setsuka" and not "setsuka". I don't know... Anyway, that's my opinion.

- Siegfried: 6-4
CL214B is really really good here. Sieg can only punish with WS A... and that's all !
WP is a great stance cause all move in this stance are safe against siegfried (at far/mid range).
And SW 1K break a lot of siegfried option. And SW1A can even beat Sieg WS K.
However, siegfried does a lot of damage. And his 3 is really strong against throw. His 66B his also good when he wants to come closer so u need to use lots of WP 3A to prevent this move to hit u.
AgA is not very annoying because ivy 4K is TC, so by using this move often you'll force sieg not to abuse AgA. Ivy can punish well 3 and WS B.
I played against lots of siegfried online and offline. Most famous is DTN.

- Sophitia: 6-4
If sophitia don't have anything to punish, she will only use BB and 1K most of the time...
CF is very usefull against her, just like WP stance but u have to be very carefull cause 236236B is very powerfull. She hates CS/SS !
I played against lots of sophitia both online and offline. Dina is the most famous sophitia player here.

- Taki: 5-5
I have trouble in this match up... But most of my match against her are online match so...

- Talim: 7-3
CL 4B forced her not to jump. This way it's more easy to "read" her strategy.
She don't do much damage, and she's not very safe...
She can't punish very well CL 214 so this move can be spammed. And it is a very annoying move, espescially against her.
I played against keev... long time ago (before patch).
And online battle...

- The Apprentice: May the force be with you !

- Tira: 6-4
pffou. I will explain the other one some other time. sry...
just some word, tira loose life and her damaging combo work only on counter hit.
Her jump his usefull to come closer, but in WP ivy can still hit her before she can come close.
She's not very safe, she don't have any good TC to counter CS/SS.
Play some player who play her for fun (Kayane is the famous).

- Voldo: 4-6
jump throw, mantis, jumpUB (not UB), and some other move help voldo to move very fast and to fight at any distance even against ivy. His BT throws are strong because they auto step lots of move. He does lots of damage. Side step is the key against him, but that's not enough in my opinion cause BT throw destroy any side step attempt.
Play a lot offline and online.

- Xianghua: 6-4
zoning ivy > X
X 44B is however sooooo annoying...
played against kayane.

- Yoda: Afraid, Are you ?

- Yoshimitsu: 5-5
played a lot of them at the beginning but it seemed no one play him now ???
yoshi wake up game is very very strong ! lots of damage for both ivy and yoshi.
I 'm not so sure about this one...

- Yun Seong: 6-4
WP stance again and again.
All kick are great against Crane Stance.

- Zasalamel: 6-4
Don't know much about this character.
Fight one of them in Switzerland. I'm maybe wrong about this match up.


This is just my opinion. I don't say I'm right or wrong.
I can explain some more thing if you ask me, but i'm not sure to explain myself well.
Match up vs english is 1-9, I can't do anything !
 
Thx malek for the info, it was a nice read ;)
(Also, don't worry about your English, i can perfectly understand whatever you're saying and my native language is not english too)

about: Algol, SW, I also don't have an opinion since the Greek community has also banned these characters.

Seeing the matchup numbers you posted, I assume that the French community thinks very highly of Ivy. And to be perfectly honest...I also think that Ivy IS a powerhouse in SCIV.

So, at some point (until recently), I really didn't get why she was around mid-spots in some tier-lists popping out here and there. Of course there are also many people claiming that you rarely see a GOOD Ivy (in this game), BUT the truth is that not only you rarely see good Ivys in this game, but ALSO you rarely see other non-Ivy-players having done their study on how to face her.

The thing is...as much difficult is for a player to learn to PLAY Ivy, the same difficult is for another player to learn to FACE Ivy. Soft-state-shifting (changing states while guarding), is perhaps the best tool that was discovered for Ivy in this game and sort of makes CL contain every Ivy's move. However some anti-Ivy opponents may look for signs and predict Ivy sometimes (CL flashes RED-->WP=pressure Ivy/CL flashes BLUE-->SW=take a step backward and observe Ivy).

- Why do I think Ivy is a powerhouse?
Because, due to the nature of her entire fighting style (movelist divided in three) she is bound to have an "answer" to almost EVERY situation (even if sometimes is not such a good "answer", as other chars, she still has the tools to respond in many ways).
HOWEVER...
If a character can cause problems to one of Ivy's States (CL/SW/WP), automatically reduces her entire moveset by 1/3 (ok, this is a bit vague, but still it is a bit negative for Ivy). As for CL, yes, she can access every move from there, but Ivy cannot fight only in CL. CL (as i see it) relies mostly on 1.step 2.good CF options 3. A+B mixups and 4. super-risky 214 (Characters that can cause problems to CL, imho, are her worst matchups, ex: Lizardman, if i remember correctly). And of course, yes SW IS divine on most cases (as it has THE tools), but as with CL she cannot fight ONLY in SW (especially against players that know how to respond).

I mentioned all that, not to expose Ivy by saying she's not THAT good, but mostly for people that haven't really explored her (both by playing her and facing her).

(I'll probably add a few more matchups i have in mind later sometime this week)
 
6 FT

The first one was on X360 where i'am better for executive Asura/FotD, and the 5 other was on PS3 where Malek was better to execute CS/SS.

Malek(IVY) vs Hayate(KIL) :

6-10
10-3
5-10
10-7
10-8
9-10

50-48

But i admit that it was way hard to play against IVY, she gives lot's of troube versus Asura, espcially with 1K string. Also her Jumping B have to be anticipated to deal damage (i remember doing 88B or Asura), long range is a less problem cause Kilik can punish some ivy whiff error, or Asura here 6B+K, also he can profit a non stepable 4B or 4 if he block 6B+K 8_2B+K, i think he much tool than some character to deal with IVY at max range, but i will give a little adv for IVY even at this range.

6-4 for Ivy seems a good point here.
 
Setsuka: 6-4
Maxou (setsuka player) disagree with me here. For him it's 4-6...
My opinion is that, the two character are very strong and very close one to each other, but ivy as some more usefull tool than setsuka. For example, ivy step is really better than the one from setsuka. Ivy throw had more range. Ivy Critical Game is better. It's a fact that Setsuka punish so much better than ivy, but there are not lot of move to punish. At close and mid range, the two characters had lots of good option but at far range ivy is better. 9gB is a great move here cause he will hit setsuka in a lot of situation because of her bad step. On wake up game, I think ivy is better too because of SW214K who force setsuka to wake up.
One of my sparring play setsuka. Maybe i'm wrong cause I think to much about "his setsuka" and not "setsuka". I don't know... Anyway, that's my opinion.
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Setsuka's step is underated. Her sidestep is on par with CL. For example, Sophie blocks Setsu's 3K (deep) and Sophie does 236A. Setsu can step left, 236A misses and punish with agB. Her side-step is quite big. A complete step can dodge even Asta's throw. Tho I havent quite tested with Ivy's iCS throw.

Overall it feels actually 5-5. Tho Ivy has a slight edge bcos of devastating tools like a+b~[A+B] and 214B to step+duck punish things. Providing a good CS user would make her 6-4.

Theres virtually no offline Ivy player in my area. :( Think atleast 3-4 ppl ask me wierd questions, who uses Ivy? Why would u choose Ivy? Kinda explains a lack of interest in Ivys in my area.
 
- (lol) I was preparing a huge post about Kilik and Voldo but my pc died unexpectedly and lost it...all :(
Kilik's 6:4 seems viable (since Kilik has anti-Ivy tools) but for the same reason it could also be a 5:5 (for the same reasons Hayate and malek mentioned). The Voldo match-up is a bit tricky and i was planing a post to explain it could be a 4:6 (perhaps if i find some free time i'll repost it)

- also i'll update my 1st opinion of NM into a 5:5 (instead of a 4:6)

- about malek's post, i added to the 1st page only the ones that you seemed to be more certain. If you think that i should add some more, just let me know here :)

- Finally what do people think about Lizardman? I've discussed it with some people and seems to be a 3:7 (or at best 4:6), although since i don't have much anti-Lizardman experience so far i'm not sure...
 
Ivy:Lizardman is 5:5, or maybe slight Ivy advantage. The only thing LM has a clear advantage in is step catching. Learn to see his 1K, and this match devolves very quickly.
 
What about it? I gave it its due when I said LM catches step better. 66A alone should not be shutting any Ivy down. Most other Ivy players think the match is bad more due to inexperience than anything else.

Edit: Also, since no one else has played many Star Wars guys, I'll say that my preliminary feelings are she has a 7:3 advantage against Vader and 6:4 against Apprentice.
 
Linkrkc said:
What about it? I gave it its due when I said LM catches step better. 66A alone should not be shutting any Ivy down. Most other Ivy players think the match is bad more due to inexperience than anything else.

Edit: Also, since no one else has played many Star Wars guys, I'll say that my preliminary feelings are she has a 7:3 advantage against Vader and 6:4 against Apprentice.
Click to expand...

I know, I was joking lol. I'm still not ninja enough to see 1K. Probably doesn't help that I haven't been playing haha
 
link is right about 1K. i dont have crazy good ivy experience but i have played a few who know what they are doing so i am at least comfortable in the matchup.

as soon as you start to block 1K, my job gets like twice as hard. the rest of the matchup is pretty even, no glaring advantage on either side.
 
Not a lot of people give their opinion...
Noone care about this thread ?

And,
How many ivy player is there in USA ?
 
Nope, Ivy is not played much in SC4. On the east coast, I know of 350z(New York/NJ), and myself(Florida). Central there is Link(Texas), and honestly, I have no clue of any others.
 
Sora and Nofacekill3r in north and south California, respectively. I think that's about it for the U.S.
 
I'm active in vegas. Wish i had more input. Too much info comes from online play :/ I need to seriously find the people here for Evo and train offline and ill write back. So far:

Setsuka and Voldo.

Cass, Sophie, Hilde, Seig are also tough.
 
in my exp (online of course)

toughest matchups (in order)
1)hilde- limits our choices
2)Algol- bastard
3)voldo-i mean he doen't even need to be able to block CL A+B, A+K
4)setsuka- mid-range speed and lot's of TCing...
5)X- 44B


hilde and algol are the only ones I'd consider to be a favorite on ivy (4:6), the other three i'd say are 5:5

i think we got an edge over anybody else
 
Hi Ivy lovers,

I've played online vs. a very bad Ivy player, under lag (bad 4 bar), but still I don't think I should have lost.
I play Cassandra.

Basically all he did was keep away from my range, spam CL 214 as soon as I approach, then push me out with SE moves. I read the frame data, and saw it was -21 on block, but it feels i'm too far away to punish.
Also a bit of spam of a few attacks (don't know the notation) that push me away at least 2-3 character size away.

Any insights ? With what move can I punish it ? 236B didn't have enough range, and my long range stuff (44B+K, 22B+K ..) got CH by silly SE BBBBBB.

Was it just me ? or the lag ? or should I rethink my strategy ?

Thanks for your insights !
 
Cass vs. CL 214

Start by timing Cass. 4B+K (the move that will act on a counter). If you can get it consistently while being hit then you should be able to punish them well.
 
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