Hey i'm interested about Amy vs Ivy matchup. Could people who think it's favorable to Amy go into a bit more detail ? I get raped by good Ivy players, her damage is crazy, I have trouble breaking JF CS, she has very good stuff in WP (3B, 22K, A+B, 9B ...), very good step, can keep me away most of the time, ...
Ivy Match-ups and Anti-Character strategies
- Thread starter Yurimatsu
- Start date
dittO
[09] Warrior
just some notes:
- Ring, EXCELLENT work (about the match-up chart)
- Some of Davo's numbers where indeed added by me some months ago. I think I was carefull when I was editing, but If I made any mistakes (or If he's changed his mind) I apologize, so feel free to point them out and they will be edited.
- Some more numbers by me also (Ring I'd appreciate it, If you could edit a bit more the 1st post If aynone's posting his opinion. I'm in the end of my exam period, so that means that I still don't have much free time...but it also means that soon I'll have lots of it ;p):
Algol: 4:6 (I don't fight vs Algol lately, but I think a 4:6 describes it pretty well)
Mitsurugi: I'm really confused about this one...(vaguely I could say the following): both have about the same damage, both have risk in their trampcards, both nice RO and CF. Mitsu has better techtraps and rushdown, but Ivy has the luxury that in whichever state she's in, she can fight him pretty well without having a "weak state" when opposing Mitsu (WP: keep away, outrange/CL: A+Bmixups, spacing/SW: interrupt, punish).
I think I'm between 5:5 and 6:4, but for the matchup chart's sake I'd stick to 5:5 (for now at least)
Finally, I'd like to change vs Talim matchup into: 7:3
- Ring, EXCELLENT work (about the match-up chart)
- Some of Davo's numbers where indeed added by me some months ago. I think I was carefull when I was editing, but If I made any mistakes (or If he's changed his mind) I apologize, so feel free to point them out and they will be edited.
- Some more numbers by me also (Ring I'd appreciate it, If you could edit a bit more the 1st post If aynone's posting his opinion. I'm in the end of my exam period, so that means that I still don't have much free time...but it also means that soon I'll have lots of it ;p):
Algol: 4:6 (I don't fight vs Algol lately, but I think a 4:6 describes it pretty well)
Mitsurugi: I'm really confused about this one...(vaguely I could say the following): both have about the same damage, both have risk in their trampcards, both nice RO and CF. Mitsu has better techtraps and rushdown, but Ivy has the luxury that in whichever state she's in, she can fight him pretty well without having a "weak state" when opposing Mitsu (WP: keep away, outrange/CL: A+Bmixups, spacing/SW: interrupt, punish).
I think I'm between 5:5 and 6:4, but for the matchup chart's sake I'd stick to 5:5 (for now at least)
Finally, I'd like to change vs Talim matchup into: 7:3
Awestruck
[09] Warrior
Algol 4:6
Amy 4:6
Astaroth 5:5
Cassandra 5:4
Cervantes 5:5
Darth Vader 6:4
Hilde 3:7
Kilik 5:5
Lizardman 4:5
Maxi 7:3
Mitsurugi 6:4
Nightmare 6:4
Raphael 6:4
Rock 6:3
Seong Mi-Na 7:3
Setsuka 5:4
Siegfried 7:4
Sophitia 4:6
Taki 7:4
Talim 7:3
The Apprentice 7:3
Tira 6:4
Voldo 3:7
Xianghua 5:5
Yoda ""
Yoshimitsu 5:5
Yun-seong 6:4
Zasalamel 6:4
Amy 4:6
Astaroth 5:5
Cassandra 5:4
Cervantes 5:5
Darth Vader 6:4
Hilde 3:7
Kilik 5:5
Lizardman 4:5
Maxi 7:3
Mitsurugi 6:4
Nightmare 6:4
Raphael 6:4
Rock 6:3
Seong Mi-Na 7:3
Setsuka 5:4
Siegfried 7:4
Sophitia 4:6
Taki 7:4
Talim 7:3
The Apprentice 7:3
Tira 6:4
Voldo 3:7
Xianghua 5:5
Yoda ""
Yoshimitsu 5:5
Yun-seong 6:4
Zasalamel 6:4
Sora
[11] Champion
Catch her in the wrong stance, add pressure to the game once you do. It'll destroy any Ivy who's not prepared for it.
Davo: THANKS! You have no idea how much that helps. XD
4K = The anti voldo:p
neoghaleon
[99] The Cow
awestruck
you wrote siegfried and taki as 7:4
that adds up to 11
lol
you wrote siegfried and taki as 7:4
that adds up to 11
lol
Ring
Lay still now
Ok edited the 1st post. Awestruck, pls check if everything is fine because I was unsure about these lol
And I had to guess :P
Sora
[11] Champion
For what its worth, these are mine:
Astaroth: 5:5 (This is simply a good match. Both have an excellent throw/command throw game. Ranges are similar. Asty is on the slow side but is made up for his damage. I don't see this going one way or another off the bat.)
Cassandra: 5:5 (Maybe Cassie has a very slight advantage, but all in all its Cass's punish/frames vs Ivy's throw/spacing. Both of them have limited, but good lows, as well as RO options.)
Hilde: 3.5:6.5/3:7 (A character limiting Ivy to all but one or two moves... bleh. Only thing Ivy has going for this matchup is that Hilde is MUCH easier... or at least predictable to block/defend against)
Mitsurugi: 5:5 (Mitsu has the advantage of more good lows, Ivy has the advantage of her throw game. Similar RO game. Mitsu outclasses Ivy in his optimal range vs CL, but in SW this is reversed. A good matchup all in all IMO)
Voldo: 4:6 (3:7 is exaggerating it now that I think about it. XD)
Yoshimitsu: 4:6 (As I mentioned in the Yoshi SA, I'm convinced Yoshi has a distinct advantage over Ivy. iMCF after a lot of blocked moves forces Ivy to play even MORE extra defensively. Ivy is outclassed in terms of RO game. Dragonfly/pogo forces a lot of Ivy's startups to whiff/rendered ineffective, not to mention avoids CS/SS. CL A+B A+K is royally screwed by Yoshi on a blocked second hit as well. Overall, I just deem Yoshi more solid in this matchup.)
Ring, let me know if you want the full list (albeit with blanks on the nonmentioned) for the sake of formatting; I'll edit this post if that is more comfortable for you.
Astaroth: 5:5 (This is simply a good match. Both have an excellent throw/command throw game. Ranges are similar. Asty is on the slow side but is made up for his damage. I don't see this going one way or another off the bat.)
Cassandra: 5:5 (Maybe Cassie has a very slight advantage, but all in all its Cass's punish/frames vs Ivy's throw/spacing. Both of them have limited, but good lows, as well as RO options.)
Hilde: 3.5:6.5/3:7 (A character limiting Ivy to all but one or two moves... bleh. Only thing Ivy has going for this matchup is that Hilde is MUCH easier... or at least predictable to block/defend against)
Mitsurugi: 5:5 (Mitsu has the advantage of more good lows, Ivy has the advantage of her throw game. Similar RO game. Mitsu outclasses Ivy in his optimal range vs CL, but in SW this is reversed. A good matchup all in all IMO)
Voldo: 4:6 (3:7 is exaggerating it now that I think about it. XD)
Yoshimitsu: 4:6 (As I mentioned in the Yoshi SA, I'm convinced Yoshi has a distinct advantage over Ivy. iMCF after a lot of blocked moves forces Ivy to play even MORE extra defensively. Ivy is outclassed in terms of RO game. Dragonfly/pogo forces a lot of Ivy's startups to whiff/rendered ineffective, not to mention avoids CS/SS. CL A+B A+K is royally screwed by Yoshi on a blocked second hit as well. Overall, I just deem Yoshi more solid in this matchup.)
Ring, let me know if you want the full list (albeit with blanks on the nonmentioned) for the sake of formatting; I'll edit this post if that is more comfortable for you.
Awestruck
[09] Warrior
Shit, I should've looked over those. :|
7:3
Damn typos.
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
The Taki and Sieg ones I fucked up on.
Woahhzz
[09] Warrior
lol i laughed pretty hard at that.. then harder at ring's
Dreamkiller
Equal Sign Slash
I marked Ivy down as a 6/4 for Her vs. Taki.
I see most of you think the same as well, so yay.
^_^
I see most of you think the same as well, so yay.
^_^
neoghaleon
[99] The Cow
I'm starting to hear that people think Ivy is a good counter pick against astaroth
Is this true?
Personally, I find astaroth matchup to be quite hard because I can't use CS/SS without being punished into oblivion by bullrush.
Is this true?
Personally, I find astaroth matchup to be quite hard because I can't use CS/SS without being punished into oblivion by bullrush.
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Depends if Asta gets wat he wants to do. Can he space better than that Ivy player, Or how well does Ivy handle pressure in close range. If Asta gets pushed out to fight on defense alone at far range, Ivy has an edge in CF. Tho its better for Asta in smaller maps as it means its where his 66K, 22_88B and command grab makes his job a lot easier.
5:5
Against other Asta's I am about to keepout much better. Against LG's in a tight space, his closing in tactic needs more patience which means more SW camping. Altho btw, does Asta get anything after CL 214 on hit?
5:5
Against other Asta's I am about to keepout much better. Against LG's in a tight space, his closing in tactic needs more patience which means more SW camping. Altho btw, does Asta get anything after CL 214 on hit?
teflon2105
[09] Warrior
What's a good strategy against seigfried? i get hit by almost anything this bastard swings his lows are very hard too block but recently i been owning seigfried's i know 90% of the time they go for that low sweep. and i block and punish that but he destroys ivy gauge quickly most his moves keep ivy in a defensive state the whole match i just wait too counter. wp stance he goes under that wit his low techs he the only character that gives me an extremely hard time.
Davo87
[09] Warrior
~
Against seigfried, if he ever gets close to you, stay in sword and be prepared to step his 3B. Also know the range of his ag:A and be very aware it gives positive frames on block, irrc its like +2. Also his ag:A recovers really fast, so I dont recommend interupting it as he can bait the whiff with a CH 3B. Generally step G to see what he does next. If he does this at point blank, SW 2A can CH his 3B. Before committing to use a lot of 22K or FC 3B know that Ivy's pokes aside from SW 3B gives tiny advantage which means his 3B will CH all your lows if he guess right. Side stepping~ G a lot when in doubt. Generally, dont do highs against Seigfried at close to med range. Spam a lot of 2A when in range and where necessary if its a 3B spammy player.
Also know main pokes:
i14: 6K and 66KA
i15: 1K
i16: B6
i17: 3B and iaGA
All his go into stance roulette moves are punishable. Every time you block a 3, u get SW 6B8K.
His 1A, the giant sword sweep is unsafe on hit. Think you can interupt the second followup with 9gB?
Altho he has another version which looks exactly like that sword sweep which gives + 7 irrc. That you have to block.
Generally poking him with WP just outside of his B6 range is a starter for chip damage. Tho do becareful of using special lows and lows against him, as seig players enjoy jumping over them with 44BB which is about free 80dmg.
Seigfried's main mixups are throws and 3B, bcos Ivy's WP tools do better against his long range, so other than his B6 and aGA u have lesser to worry about.
His RO game is about the following: A+G, 2A+G, 66B goes forward. CH 66KA 3>A+B goes to forward+left. 3A and CH 6A to his right. aGA 90degree left, 1B and 2B+G to his back. If his back is to the ring, do not GI back! His 1B goes over walls and is really really far.
Know that in situations where ur anti-step is limited he can sidestep with his 66B.
Fighting seig is about outpoking him, and take the best damage. Being mindful of his ROs and wallcombo opportunities to keep yourself in a safer position. Utilise CL's good step and move a lot.
Against seigfried, if he ever gets close to you, stay in sword and be prepared to step his 3B. Also know the range of his ag:A and be very aware it gives positive frames on block, irrc its like +2. Also his ag:A recovers really fast, so I dont recommend interupting it as he can bait the whiff with a CH 3B. Generally step G to see what he does next. If he does this at point blank, SW 2A can CH his 3B. Before committing to use a lot of 22K or FC 3B know that Ivy's pokes aside from SW 3B gives tiny advantage which means his 3B will CH all your lows if he guess right. Side stepping~ G a lot when in doubt. Generally, dont do highs against Seigfried at close to med range. Spam a lot of 2A when in range and where necessary if its a 3B spammy player.
Also know main pokes:
i14: 6K and 66KA
i15: 1K
i16: B6
i17: 3B and iaGA
All his go into stance roulette moves are punishable. Every time you block a 3, u get SW 6B8K.
His 1A, the giant sword sweep is unsafe on hit. Think you can interupt the second followup with 9gB?
Altho he has another version which looks exactly like that sword sweep which gives + 7 irrc. That you have to block.
Generally poking him with WP just outside of his B6 range is a starter for chip damage. Tho do becareful of using special lows and lows against him, as seig players enjoy jumping over them with 44BB which is about free 80dmg.
Seigfried's main mixups are throws and 3B, bcos Ivy's WP tools do better against his long range, so other than his B6 and aGA u have lesser to worry about.
His RO game is about the following: A+G, 2A+G, 66B goes forward. CH 66KA 3>A+B goes to forward+left. 3A and CH 6A to his right. aGA 90degree left, 1B and 2B+G to his back. If his back is to the ring, do not GI back! His 1B goes over walls and is really really far.
Know that in situations where ur anti-step is limited he can sidestep with his 66B.
Fighting seig is about outpoking him, and take the best damage. Being mindful of his ROs and wallcombo opportunities to keep yourself in a safer position. Utilise CL's good step and move a lot.
Linkrkc
[10] Knight
Davo covered most of it, but I'll add a couple things. Just keep in mind my main Sieg experience is against a roachy "agA, B6, 1K, and throw" Sieg.
I like 4K against Siegfried a lot. Goes under agA, safe against him, and breaks reasonably fast. He can't do anything about this move outside of sidestepping or GI. Also, he can't punish CL 214 very well, nor does he punish you very hard for ducking randomly (about 40ish damage compared to your 60 [in SW/WP] for correctly ducking a throw/high). This match bores me to tears, but it's not terribly difficult if you can stay focused.
I like 4K against Siegfried a lot. Goes under agA, safe against him, and breaks reasonably fast. He can't do anything about this move outside of sidestepping or GI. Also, he can't punish CL 214 very well, nor does he punish you very hard for ducking randomly (about 40ish damage compared to your 60 [in SW/WP] for correctly ducking a throw/high). This match bores me to tears, but it's not terribly difficult if you can stay focused.
teflon2105
[09] Warrior
Thanks a lot Davo& Link great advice.
Ring
Lay still now
Beware of using WP 3A at close range against Seigfried, because his 3B_ goes under it most of the time. If you play against Seigfried online there's not much you can do about his lows. Most of them deal large damage and due to lag are "invisible".
Been testing some anti X stuff lately. I figured that Ivy's WP 2A destoys her 44B badly. It's less risky than WP 3A and WP 2B. It's one of those moves in the game that will catch X at almost any range when she does 44B, it works like 80% of time.
She also has enormous problems with punishing WP 2A, because this move recovers in FC, meaning it can't be punished with high attacks (that's where X shines) And it's only -15 at close range. So all she can get is
i14 2A
i15 BB (the second B will mostly whiff against Ivy if it's at tip range)
i15 2K
i15 3K
Every move listed here has very limited range, so it will work only at close range. WP 2A can be spammed against X and she won't be able to do much, because it rips to shreds one of her best tool (also, WP 2A punishes 44B on block) It's absolutely a golden tools against X.
However, her 44B is more problematic when Ivy is in SW and CL.
CL 33A will most likely hit X during 44B but the startup of this move is pretty slow.
SW 44K works
But I'm afraid that's about it. I'll try to find some other usefull moves later, and post some more anti-x stuff.
Been testing some anti X stuff lately. I figured that Ivy's WP 2A destoys her 44B badly. It's less risky than WP 3A and WP 2B. It's one of those moves in the game that will catch X at almost any range when she does 44B, it works like 80% of time.
She also has enormous problems with punishing WP 2A, because this move recovers in FC, meaning it can't be punished with high attacks (that's where X shines) And it's only -15 at close range. So all she can get is
i14 2A
i15 BB (the second B will mostly whiff against Ivy if it's at tip range)
i15 2K
i15 3K
Every move listed here has very limited range, so it will work only at close range. WP 2A can be spammed against X and she won't be able to do much, because it rips to shreds one of her best tool (also, WP 2A punishes 44B on block) It's absolutely a golden tools against X.
However, her 44B is more problematic when Ivy is in SW and CL.
CL 33A will most likely hit X during 44B but the startup of this move is pretty slow.
SW 44K works
But I'm afraid that's about it. I'll try to find some other usefull moves later, and post some more anti-x stuff.
Davo87
[09] Warrior
WP 2A > X 44B? Thats news. :P Too bad this doesnt work on Raphael as well, bcos he has Low aGI for his 44B.
malek
[10] Knight
CL 1B B+K is the key against Sieg.
You can do it again and again, there is nothing he can do against that.
He can try some AgA at tip range but then CL 6A+B will catch him for lots of damage.
It's also very good against X cause it will catch her in her 1B+K,
and put her at range for 214B at tip range which is... SAFE against her !
Then CL 214, wait for her to whiff some punish (FC 3B for example) then 5JF or BBB 9gB.
Or you can try SE A+B !
You can do it again and again, there is nothing he can do against that.
He can try some AgA at tip range but then CL 6A+B will catch him for lots of damage.
It's also very good against X cause it will catch her in her 1B+K,
and put her at range for 214B at tip range which is... SAFE against her !
Then CL 214, wait for her to whiff some punish (FC 3B for example) then 5JF or BBB 9gB.
Or you can try SE A+B !
Nofacekill3r
[11] Champion
Can't he 6B, 66B, etc? I'm too lazy to work out the risk/reward for him, what are your thoughts? Idk, Offbeat Ninja seems to play against me in such a way that it is more risky for me to guess wrong at mid/long range than vice versa.
But yeah, 1B, B+K is def. one of my favorite moves. Not too bad SG damage either.