The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4. . .

The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Artilust said:
I believe it would be pretty pointless if thats what you want me to do. Seeing as you would say something to the effect of "that move is ___ frames" or "stepable on reaction" when in actuality Im only talking about the idea of rushdown discouraging turtling among some players. A well placed guard crush and thats your ass, guard it or get hit by it.
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The fact that you could say those things suggests that none of these moves you are bitching about is anywhere near as abusable as you say they are. Rushdown has been a tactic against turtles ever since SF2. It doesn't own turtles in this game, and it doesn't get owned by turtles either. Live with it.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Youre missing the point.

CF's system in fact rewards bulldogging, where as the downfall to bulldogging in Calibur is, nothing. You can GI, you can block you can sidestep. .

WHAT I AM SAYING IS. .

Given a situation where two good players are playing, you cant sit on your soapbox and say what they SHOULD have done to avoid the CF because, given the system, a CF is has no true disadvantage. Its a slant in favor of the aggressor.


I dont think you can fully grasp this concept until youre in a situation such as picking your poison as far as staying on the ground and getting scooped up with Mitsu's 66B or stand into a guard where you get CF'ed. This is an instance in which you have no choice, but to be dead, with not much to do in the respect of playing defensive and regaining your footing.

Lets be realistic, when your bar starts to flash, it goes from trying to KO to trying to CF. Are we still playing the game at high level now? When a character get a super flashing in a 2d do they instantly go for the hypo combo? Whys that?


The whole thought process is changed.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

high level play requires you to look at the whole situation. people playing at a high level will try to prevent their gauge from flashing red. it's not like you are forced to block consecutively in this game. if you get any reasonable amount of attacks in, your gauge will tend to stay pretty stable. Is the timer a stupid system because as soon as it gets to like 10 seconds or so, the person leading in health will focus more on not getting hit? No, its just something the person losing should have paid more attention to.

Meaning after you block, use your frame advantage? If you want to just block until the person uses an attack that is punishable, this game isn't for you. In fact, most fighting games aren't for you.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

The one missing points here is clearly you.

Yes, there are situations where you're forced to block a safe move. Woo. This would only be broken if you were constantly forced to block safe moves that also did massive SG damage. It may be that someone uses this as their strat, e.g. Mina players, who are very dependent on CFs because she sucks balls at everything else. But there are so many ways around this.

And even that's besides the point. If you're beaten down so badly that you're in the position of having to choose between getting hit by a grounded Mitsu 66BB or blocking it and risking a CF, well there's also a 99% chance that you're getting worked and deserve to lose.

Besides that, your premise is faulty. Rushdown is favoured heavily? Who would you say are the rushdown characters that are favoured this way? Make a list, then check it against the characters who depend heavily on CFs for wins. Crosscheck. You'll find they're not very alike, Amy possibly being the notable exception. It's primarily ranged and mix-up characters that will be getting the CFs.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Artilust said:
I dont think you can fully grasp this concept until youre in a situation such as picking your poison as far as staying on the ground and getting scooped up with Mitsu's 66B or stand into a guard where you get CF'ed.
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No offense Artilust, but when using examples, you shouldn't pick one that someone can easily turtle against with GIs.

Mitsu's 66B specifically is very GI-able. And if they follow up with the second part of it, GI that and the gauge you lost from blocking the first hit, you've recovered all of it and then some.

This exact situation you talk about, I've been in it a ton of times. My favorite response so far is GI. There's plenty of others.

If you're talking about flashing red and risking death or a CF, you're screwed anyways. You have NO HEALTH and NO GAUGE. You're walking on thin ice.
If you've got a lot of health and flashing red, take the damn hits. (Or GI.)
If you've got no health but some gauge left, get up and block. (Or GI.)

CFs only come up if one player is very aggressive and doesn't block. Remember, the back and forth balance of the game means that if one player wants to break soul gauges, they can go for it. But in order to do that, they're sacrificing BLOCKING in order to pull of a win that way. One of my friends never blocks; he only attacks or GIs. Guess what? He gets a lot of CFs. He never beats me because I know the concept of punishing, stepping, GI-ing his predictable attacks, etc. He beats the other players because they choke during his assault and hold guard.

Turtles read their opponent, guard, step, GI, tech crouch when necessary and counter attack.
Chickens sit on the guard button and wait for something to hatch from it.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

The way I see it, if you're flashing or getting CFed consistently, you have 3 options:

1. Continue losing.
2. Change up your play-style.
3. Trade this game in.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Getting CFed consatantly means...
You failed at understanding the use of Gi's.

For example Zass vs Taki.

Zass is a turtle heavy character because his tools are just that...painfull.
Taki is a rusher, a pretty damn good one at that.

A Zass player needs to GI, as much as possible...step as much as possible...space and punish with pokes where applicable.

When I get CFed...It's because I would have lost anyway, because my opponent was dictating pressure the entire game.
Or I wasn't paying attention.
Or Stupid lucky ass JI GIs...happened too many times.

Watch-out for auto-gi bitches....if anything the inbalance in auto-gi characters is the problem. Fucking Kilik.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Well all that aside, i was wondering if i was really the only one who didnt like the system.


I mean I dont lose THAT much, and even less to CF. I just dont like them in general. I can GI just fine.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

page said:
The only thing I'd like to change so hard is the armour breaks. Their impact is negligible, they ruin counter hits, and they make using custom characters and costumes pointless since after a couple rounds both players are often running around naked. Either get rid of them, or keep them in, change the cosmetics, and fix the counter hits.
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Yeah that is a pretty big one there. The game direly needed some better choices in the options department of either just simply damaging the gear on the custom characters (yeah I know what that entails, but c'mon: it's 2008...) or give an option to turn visible armor damage off so that werewolf guy you've been pounding the heck out of doesn't turn into the equivalent of armorless Arthur at the end of round 3.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

The Critical Finish system is actually my favorite new element to this game. I'll happily take that instead of the soul charging we had previously, though I did use the charge a lot, too. CFs are extremely rare for me to accomplish, and I have never been the victim of one to date. Certainly, it forces some players to be more aggressive, but good gameplay remains to be a good defense. That is a common thread of any good game (not that it's the only defining aspect).
In fact, I think it might just be a tool to make more new players into good ones. Eventually, players who rely on the guard button won't be able to live with that and will have to find other defensive options. That means getting good impact/parry timing, evasion, and even priority.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

*Pulls a chair*
Hi, my name is Plume, and I'm a turtle...
(Hello Plume...)



... ... I think CFs are fine.

You pointed at Talim and Sophitia. Talim in general is seen as the worst character of the game. Sophitia supposedly could be much better.
Then there's Mina, who's a CF machine, and again is seen as pretty weak.

Sounds fine to me. I see the ability to CF as a part of a character's balance.


I find some characters to be questionable, but their best gauge damaging tools seem to be less abusable than those from the 3 characters named above.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

IMO I'd rather deal with a punishable bulldog, and occasionally get CF'd, then one hiding behind frametraps and safe offense ala' SC 2.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Perhaps soul gauge system is a way to bring back the SC1 aggression. In SC1, almost all moves were safe so you can attack quite often in the first place. Then they made more moves unsafe so people needed to think when attacking (tactical aggression) and may give people who block a way out of a bad situation. May be, Namco wanted to bring back the fun and aggressive play of SC1 while keeping aggression a tactical thing. By keeping unsafe moves and adding CFs? If this is the case, Namco is doing a good thing. Lots of people were saying how much fun SC1 was. Kinda regaining some of that fun is a good idea.

I am not fully sure about this since I've never played SC1 or SC4. Just an idea I'm throwing out for many to consider.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

To me?

The complete lack of any kind of acceptable single player mode.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

I think with the Soul Gauge system, it makes GI more usable though there are other alternatives. I do a 6G and damage your soul gauge; I do a 4G, I heal my soul gauge and send my opponent face down towards the wall/ground.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Originally CFs freaked me out.

I now love them as an addition to the game.

Ill take those over rage or the other gimmicks they could've added.


-Manta-
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

just 4G or 1G a couple of times and you're golden... geez.
 
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