Ivy Match-ups and Anti-Character strategies

lol, "technically" is what you meant to say babalook.

Also Scud, why do you think hilde is so bad for ivy? It seems she has some great tools against her, mainly 22k and 44k but also others as well.

And its in amys favor also? hmm, do you think its just lack of knowledge vs. Ivy when U.S. was out there?
 
thugish_pond said:
lol, "technically" is what you meant to say babalook.

Also Scud, why do you think hilde is so bad for ivy? It seems she has some great tools against her, mainly 22k and 44k but also others as well.

And its in amys favor also? hmm, do you think its just lack of knowledge vs. Ivy when U.S. was out there?
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my humble opinion is that you guys did not step enough vs. Ivy
 
Thanks Scud. I will update the first post soon.

babalook said:
could you techniquley use the standard G button and whatever you have set for grab, or would say B+G not count the G.
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Yeah, A+G and B+G count as 'G' during ukemi too. So if you have both those binded to your shoulder buttons you can press "G" 3 times at once or even more (if you have K+G etc), that pretty much guarantees JU most of the time.
 
Malek just pwns too much in France haha.

Different country different styles leads to different tiers. That's all really.

Although IMO, the Yoshi/Ivy 5:5 is correct. Yoshi definitely has the tools to outmatch Ivy even in her fastest stance (SW). Don't get me started if she's caught in the wrong stance.

Ivy would have range as a "safe" option against Yoshi, similar to a Mitsu matchup but Yoshi would have more tools to close the gap and/or just stay out of her range "trap".
 
thugish_pond said:
lol, "technically" is what you meant to say babalook.

Also Scud, why do you think hilde is so bad for ivy? It seems she has some great tools against her, mainly 22k and 44k but also others as well.

And its in amys favor also? hmm, do you think its just lack of knowledge vs. Ivy when U.S. was out there?
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Yes, mainly. Same at EVO and generally everywhere out of France.
Ivy is not knowned enough, for some reason. Italian and German players also had lot's of trouble against her.

Dina's Hilde never get hit by 22k and 44k. But I knew RTD and USA in general are not used to these moves.
Ivy can deal with Hilde better than Mitsu, Raph or Lizardman, however she still is in BigTrouble against her.
Example, RTD never used throw after C3A or C2A or any positive blockstun. Throws are the best way for Hilde to deal damage, to force Ivy to attack. In fact the most important part of the match is during the 4 first secondes where Hilde cannot use DOOM COMBO, Ivy has to deal some damage in order to force Hilde to attack later on the match. If Hilde has to attack, Ivy can deal with her. If Ivy has to attack, any mistake = death. And RTD don't know how to deal with SW 66K = great advantage for Ivy cause this move kills both C3A and C3B.
Since 6 month now, Dina never lost a first to 5 against other French players. When you know the chracter of your opponent, you cannot lose a first to 5 with her. Ivy is no exception. However I personnaly think 3-7 but it's approximately the same.

About Amy, I don't agree with Scud. I think the same of Amy for France than Ivy for USA. We just don't know how to deal with her generaly. So, we think she overpowered compared to reality. When there is something you don't understand, you always think it's overpowered. Voldo was France weak point at EVO but thanks to Kayane, Ahriman and lot's of other players it is now over. But I think Amy is our new weak point until next time (not for everyone however, some players know how to deal with her like Keev or Saitoh, but generally French player are a little confuse by her).

Same for Yoshi. My opinion is 7-3 for Ivy. But Scud and I have different experience so, I cannot say if he is right or no.
On the Mirror Ivy, one thing for sure, he is better than me.
 
I'd definitely agree with scuds list. Yoshi is a 5:5 no doubt, but then again i fight a very strong Yoshi so I may have some bias there.
 
I don't think that Ivy vs Yoshi is 5:5. I've been playing offline a lot with Yoshi lately and I think it's 6:4 (Malek, 7:3 is a little exaggeration IMO :P)

Zoning with Ivy can destroy this character. iMCF is dangerous, but only at close range. Does Ivy have to fight at close range? No. He even has problems with punishing CL 214B. The real pain to to learn how Yoshi works (UBs, timer etc) but the more you know about him, the less threat he becomes imo. Ivy is one of the few characters that can prevent him from using that Super TJ stuff. It's even better if you can block iFC3K on reaction (when he does that from neutral position, he looses frames when ducking, however, when he does it straight from FC it's invisible )

Funny thing is that Ivy's hitbox makes yoshis 2[A+B]~66 whiff on her.
 
I look at the front page and realised I put Amy as 5:5. lol XD. I believe that would be a fatal error. Pls change it to 4:6 Thx!
 
Ring said:
I don't think that Ivy vs Yoshi is 5:5. I've been playing offline a lot with Yoshi lately and I think it's 6:4 (Malek, 7:3 is a little exaggeration IMO :P)

Zoning with Ivy can destroy this character. iMCF is dangerous, but only at close range. Does Ivy have to fight at close range? No. He even has problems with punishing CL 214B. The real pain to to learn how Yoshi works (UBs, timer etc) but the more you know about him, the less threat he becomes imo. Ivy is one of the few characters that can prevent him from using that Super TJ stuff. It's even better if you can block iFC3K on reaction (when he does that from neutral position, he looses frames when ducking, however, when he does it straight from FC it's invisible )

Funny thing is that Ivy's hitbox makes yoshis 2[A+B]~66 whiff on her.
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iFC3K = 30-40 dmg for Yoshi on hit, 70-80 damage against Yoshi on block. I see your point.
 
Davo97 said:
I look at the front page and realised I put Amy as 5:5. lol XD. I believe that would be a fatal error. Pls change it to 4:6 Thx!
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Done. Also added Scud to the first post.

@Sora, I believe he gets much less on hit because he doesn't get anything guaranteed there except for 2K. So iFC3K is less than 30dmg on hit. The move I hate most about Yoshi at the moment is 33B,B+K... it's so good.

@Malek, feel free to post your updated matchups. How many 7:3 we will see this time? ;)
 
Ring said:
The move I hate most about Yoshi at the moment is 33B,B+K... it's so good.
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GI the second hit on block. It's not too difficult to react to. Same as SC2 Yoshi's 66B, B+K.

Malek, are you still coming to the US this year? Or did destroying Team USA change your mind?
 
I never chimed in with this, I think I’ll add my two cents:

-Algol: 5:5
- Amy: 6:4
- Astaroth: 5:5
- Cassandra: 5:5
- Cervantes: 5:5
- Darth Vader: No real basis for judgment
- Hilde: 2:8 (I don’t see how Ivy can win this one at all)
- Kilik: 5:5
- Lizardman: 4:6
- Maxi: No real basis for judgment
- Mitsurugi: 5:5
- Nightmare: 6:4
- Raphael: 6:4
- Rock: No real basis for judgment
- Seong Mina: 6:4
- Setsuka: 4:6
- Siegfried: 6:4
- Sophitia: 4:6
- Taki: 6:4
- Talim: 7:3
- The Apprentice: No real basis for judgment
- Tira: 6:4
- Voldo: 2:8 (I don’t see how it’s possible to win against Voldo without completely outclassing the opponent at every turn)
- Xianghua: 5:5
- Yoda: No real basis for judgment
- Yoshimitsu: 5:5
- Yun Seong: 6:4
- Zasalamel: No real basis for judgment

There are no real surprises here, but I think where people might find something a bit jarring is my opinion of Amy. Now, I may be letting my disproportionate tournament record against Amy influence me, but I think Ivy should win this match-up. By no means is it an easy fight, but I think Ivy has the tools to hurt Amy badly. The key is to not get caught in her shit. The success that I have had against her has come from punishing her wherever she can be punished, never rising with an attack (to get hit with her auto GI), spacing her, and, of course, intimidating the opponent with the command throws.

Voldo is another matter altogether. If an opponent is familiar with how to play against Ivy, I don’t think its possible to beat that opponent when he is using Voldo. Actually, there are many characters that can give Ivy a very hard time if the opponent knows how to fight against Ivy, but Voldo is exceptional in this regard. The match-up is overtly unfair. It wouldn’t be as bad if Ivy players could guard a bit more against him, but with his unfair soul gauge damage, Ivy players can’t do that. As a result, Ivy players have to gamble with unsafe moves against this character. So, it’s my opinion that Ivy players just have to be better players than Voldo players to win this one.
 
Linkrkc said:
GI the second hit on block. It's not too difficult to react to. Same as SC2 Yoshi's 66B, B+K.
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I always hesitated to try that in VS because he can delay the B+K part, but I will have to try and see. Thanks.

Did his SC2 66B,B+K tracked like Ivy's WP 6A+B in 1.02 by any chance?
 
Ring, as long as you know how long the delay can last, you're basically looking for any movement at all after blocking 33B. Give it a try. =)

I think the SC2 version tracked a bit, but not 100%. Though, to be fair, you could step nearly every move in SC2.
 
Linkrkc said:
GI the second hit on block. It's not too difficult to react to. Same as SC2 Yoshi's 66B, B+K.

Malek, are you still coming to the US this year? Or did destroying Team USA change your mind?
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Not really, but right now only Saitoh and I are able to come to GAMME...
And I can only travel for one week which is not so much for such a long trip.
Keev, DTN, Maxou are all students and so they don't have money for this.
Kayane will go to EVO. So, we are only 2 and we would prefer at least 1 or 2 people more before to say that we will come.
I think we will decide if we come or no in a week or two depending on Scud, Kira, and some others players.


Ring,
- Amy: ?
Can't say cause I realise thanks to Thugish and Belial I don't know Amy enough.
- Astaroth: 6:4
100%, I challenge most Astaroth player in the world to be accurate.
- Cassandra: 7:3
In 2 weeks, Scud and Elazul want to show me I'm wrong about this one. It will be my pleasure to show them that:
maitresseivy.gif

- Cervantes: 5:5
- Hilde: 3-7
Ivy has to play in SW. She can use 22K, 66K (very dangerous but still), 44K, 9B and 2K. Very Hard, but not impossible.
- Kilik: 5:5
Yeah.
- Lizardman: 6:4
Long time since I play a Lizardman now, but that's the way I remember it.
- Maxi: 7:3
Not a chance that this one can be better for Maxi. Actually I think it's 8:2.
- Mitsurugi: 6:4
Saitoh, Belial, Keysona and lot's of other player change my mind. I think it's correct.
- Nightmare: 6:4
Maybe 7:3. Keev frightened too many people (and me too), so they think Nightmare is strong whereas it's Keev and not Night.
- Raphael: 6:4 or 7:3
I have played with a Raphael player since 3 years now. So I can't imagine Raphael differently than his. That's why I can't say.
- Rock: 9:1
100% Accurate. Saitoh think it's 8:2 because that's the result of our last matches but it was 4am !!! Next time, I will show him it's actually 10:00.
No Rock can compete with my Ivy. Lots tried but all missed: LAU, Some UK player, Pantocrator, Kawaks, Saitoh, Keev, all of them.
- Seong Mina: 7:3
...probably... I only challenge 2 Mina, InsaneKent and Bouf8. I didn't really try to understand their character is still won, so...
- Setsuka: 4:6
This one still confuse me. I have a different opinion on this match up every second... 4:6 is the one according to many other players.
- Siegfried: 6:4
I expect 7:3 but Pantocrator and DTN changed my mind... for now. I have more test to do on this match up.
- Sophitia: 4:6
Maybe 5:5, last Sophitia player I played was Ramon... long ago.
- Taki: ?
No idea at all. I know some tricks, but not really the way to play against her.
- Talim: 7:3
Didn't challenge lot's of Talim. Kura and Freakysound are the best one, but I didn't challenge them since a long time.
- Tira: ?
No idea. I realise I don't know her enough. Still Ivy has advantage, but 6:4, 7:3, 8:2 I can't say.
- Voldo: 4:6
- Xianghua: 7:3
99% Accurate. Too bad I didn't challenge ShenYuan to confirm this.
- Yoshimitsu: 7:3
Once again, DTN is so strong that people think his character is strong.
But I work a lot on this particular match up and Yoshi really is in trouble against Ivy.
- Yun Seong: ?
Probably 7:3. I didn't work on this match up and however never loose to a Yunsung...
- Zasalamel: ?
Omega is still in my mind. I have to challenge another Zasalamel before to be able to think to this.

French match up chart will restart soon.
I give you a link as soon as possible if you want to.
 
Malek: Aww ... I'm probably not going to GAMME. I would have liked to play you again. I kept watching videos of you and Scud even after I quit, and I feel like I understand how to play SC4 a lot better now.

And I didn't know Kayane played more than Soul Calibur. What is she going to Evo for?
 
- Algol: 4.5:5.5
- Amy: 3.5:6.5 maybe 6:4 now because after the tournament at Phoenix revival, playing dreamkiller really helped me understand her better, duck less and step more xD, hopefully i didnt get too embarassed by that video that is gonna be posted, i did a bit better that night o.o
- Astaroth: 5:5 (I would say it's 6:4 for ivy but Asta's ring out game exceeds ivy's by .. a lot xD)
- Cassandra: 5.5:4.5
- Cervantes: 5:5
- Darth Vader: 5:5
- Hilde: 2:8 (I still don't know what to do here, i play dumber than ever xD, time to try to copy malek here but she is banned now)
- Kilik: 5:5
- Lizardman: 5:5
- Maxi: 6:4
- Mitsurugi: 5.5/4.5 (Ivy has an advantage here because her range but it's still a tough one)
- Nightmare: 6:4
- Raphael: 6:4
- Rock: 6:4 (I lack some experience here)
- Seoung Mina: 6:4 (Due to khent's level of play increasing, it have to say she's pretty tough nowadays)
- Setsuka: 4.5/5.5 (i never played a very good setsuka myself, but from me using her, she can punish alot of ivy's decent moves, aa punishes WP 3a 6g9 b, etc. also 33 B closes in quite fast make it difficult to space properly.. she i think sets have the edge here)
- Siegfried: 6:4
- Sophitia: 4:6
- Taki: 6:4
- Talim: 6:4
- The Apprentice: 5:5
- Tira: 5:5 (I played 1 or 2 good tiras, and she has some very good moves, and she has nice moves that closes in on ivy)
- Voldo: 4:6
- Xianghua: 6:4
- Yoda: 7:3 lol soul crush frenzy
- Yoshimitsu: 5:5
- Yun Seong: 6:4
- Zasalamel: 5.5/4.5 (he has surprising good range that keeps ivy in when he wants her to be and push her out when he needs her out,ivy movelist is a bit better at close range but zas definitely has the better mid game)
 
Noface, I'm planning on it, but tickets right now are too expensive so I can't confirm. I'm waiting for a price drop.
 
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