Dreamkiller
Equal Sign Slash
**** Note from Jaxel: This thread is NOT an "official tier list", this is the "official thread for discussing tier lists" ****
I think this thread should be stickied along with the Cannes Qualifier Tourney Thread.
Like i said in the other thread, all the tier lists pretty much look the same. We all know whos good and whos not. And some people might disagree on a character or two but, the tier list can't be perfect right?
Official Tier List (Not in order)
Top Tier - Hilde, Amy, Voldo, Setsuka, Kilik
Upper Mid - Cervantes, Ivy, Astaroth, Yoshimitsu, Algol, Mitsurugi, Darth Vader, Xianghua
Mid - Zasalamel, Taki, Raphael, Nightmare, Siegfried, Lizardman, The Apprentice
Lower Mid - Yun-Seong, Maxi, Talim, Tira
Bottom - Rock, Seong Mi-na, Yoda
Xianghua, Sisters, and Darth Vader are pretty hard to place.
X is pretty well rounded and deserves to be Upper-Mid, but most will prolly disagree. Sisters arent going anywhere below mid. I personally think if they're gonna be put in a tier, they should be in the same one. Some might disagree with that as well. And Darth Vader imho should be Upper Mid cause he's a RO monster. But thats pretty much a tier list everyone can agree on I think.
Doing an SABCD can to mind, but I think this pretty much covers the jist of it, and doesnt bring in unnecessary flaming and arguing. This is also not to take away from the time and work that Something-Unique put in, into getting all of the top players opinions and compiling them to a final draft about the match-ups. Once Nori gets through with that his post will be put up on this first one along with the tier list.
The Top Tiers (In no specific order)
Hilde: Hilde is just amazing, and everyone can agree that she is top tier. Her C2's and C3's are all safe and dangerous. C2A GI's any type of mid, tracks both sides, and gives advantage on block, C2B tracks to one side, gives adv. on block, awesome range and can lead to a RO combo. C3A considered one of the best moves in the game has an auto-GI window that repels mids and highs, it also crushes highs, gives good advantage on block, tracks one side, and can RO from a good distance with C2BB. She has the best step in the game, and a good back step as well which helps for Whiff Punishment into Doom Combo. A B grab that RO's/switches side and does ok dmg along with the A grab and good grab range. Monstrous.
Amy: The main moves that come to mind when you think of Amy would be 2B+K and 3B/33B. A low that KD's and gives Oki as well as a mid that does the same. Both moves crush highs at some point in their animation and 3B/33B track to one side and can give up to 50 dmg with Oki. She has great interrupts and punishers in 6BB(an i11 high that gives adv. on hit, allows her to go into stance and having 236B uninterrupted on block), 2A(quick Special low that crushes highs and gives adv. on hit and CH), WS B (i13 high that cause shakeable stun on hit and allows her to mix-up 3BA/33B/2B+K/Grab), WS K (Safe, body attack that crushes high and KD's on hit), and 3A (i14 tracking move that gives adv on hit, safe on block.) She has also other annoying moves like 1A, 66A+B, and 4A. All of these moves are unsafe, but help her in her tracking, since Amy's main weakness is stepping to her right. Her other weaknesses are grab range and damage. But her tracking sticks out the most. Simple, yet effective Amy is good for even beginners to pick up and start owning noobs.
Voldo: The best SG game out of all characters, with damage and moves that even crush mids. Starting out with the SG game, moves like 3BB, 66A+B (Mid with range, KD's), CR A+B (High, great range, KD's only -2), and 2A+B (SCC optional) are all great moves that crush in less than 10. From Blind Stance (BS) he has BS 2BK, BS 1A (low, KD, pushback, recovers crouch, and only -16), and BS 3B are all stupid great moves that break in less than 10 as well. 1K is safe, crushes mids, and puts him in BS. BS A+B is just reverse Asura, high but safe. BS 3B on CH leads to 90+ (BS 3B, 3B, 3B. JF techable tho.) For punishing he has 6:6B which leads to RO, i16 and is only -12. Far range grabs from CR are great, and CR B is a low that RO's, the K KD's and leaves him grounded (along with plenty of other moves he has), which doesn't give much punishment. Voldo is pretty weak to step tho. Don't be fooled tho, he does have damaging step killers in BS 22A and BS 3A work pretty well for that too. And he can still grab out of stance. Damage, SG damage, and an awesome RO game (damn those Mantis Crawl RO combos) pretty much separates Voldo from the rest of the cast.
Setsuka: Setsuka is deadly. She can fight you at any range and deal damage like a bitch. 66A tracks at far range and bring her in with adv. its also safe on block, but high. 33B is a safe mid-range launcher that can deal about 50+. Moves like A+K,A and 66B+K also deserve mention. At close range, she can be insane. She has great punishers since her A is i11, 44B+K is i14 high and KD's with good damage, JF Umbrella is i12, 1B:B at i17, and B+K for anything i23 and up. If she's ever in position for Oki, which will prolly be often, with all the early KD's she has she can make u guess with 1AAA and B+K. B+K ending in umbrella RO's behind her and is only -14, regular ender still nets her 90 dmg. Umbrella ender with a wall gets her a nice chunk of 100+. 1AAA is unsafe, but its a i22 low so its not so easy to see. It RO's to her right and in front of her. Umbrella set-ups are often seen since it's so fast, hits mid, RO's and does good damage. 4A is a safe retreating high, that crushes highs and tracks. On CH it stuns to give her B+K for 90 damage. Superb. Her grabs are amazing as well as having good grab range. They all leave her in good positions. Sides and back included. A grab can tech trap if she needs to, and can RO behind her. B grab does good damage and leaves them right in front you, and command grab does damage and can RO in front of her. If she had to have a weakness it would probably be her lack of lows seeing as how the other ones are seeable and unsafe. But with 1A and grabs, that should be enough to make an opponent duck. This bitch is serious.
Algol
Kilik
Upper Mid
Cervantes
Ivy
Astaroth
Yoshimitsu
Mitsurugi
Mid Tier
Zasalamel
Taki
Raphael
Nightmare
Siegfried
Lizardman
Lower Mid
The Apprentice
Yun-seong
Maxi
Talim
Tira
Bottom
Rock
Seong-Mina
Yoda
I think this thread should be stickied along with the Cannes Qualifier Tourney Thread.
Like i said in the other thread, all the tier lists pretty much look the same. We all know whos good and whos not. And some people might disagree on a character or two but, the tier list can't be perfect right?
Official Tier List (Not in order)
Top Tier - Hilde, Amy, Voldo, Setsuka, Kilik
Upper Mid - Cervantes, Ivy, Astaroth, Yoshimitsu, Algol, Mitsurugi, Darth Vader, Xianghua
Mid - Zasalamel, Taki, Raphael, Nightmare, Siegfried, Lizardman, The Apprentice
Lower Mid - Yun-Seong, Maxi, Talim, Tira
Bottom - Rock, Seong Mi-na, Yoda
Xianghua, Sisters, and Darth Vader are pretty hard to place.
X is pretty well rounded and deserves to be Upper-Mid, but most will prolly disagree. Sisters arent going anywhere below mid. I personally think if they're gonna be put in a tier, they should be in the same one. Some might disagree with that as well. And Darth Vader imho should be Upper Mid cause he's a RO monster. But thats pretty much a tier list everyone can agree on I think.
Doing an SABCD can to mind, but I think this pretty much covers the jist of it, and doesnt bring in unnecessary flaming and arguing. This is also not to take away from the time and work that Something-Unique put in, into getting all of the top players opinions and compiling them to a final draft about the match-ups. Once Nori gets through with that his post will be put up on this first one along with the tier list.
The Top Tiers (In no specific order)
Hilde: Hilde is just amazing, and everyone can agree that she is top tier. Her C2's and C3's are all safe and dangerous. C2A GI's any type of mid, tracks both sides, and gives advantage on block, C2B tracks to one side, gives adv. on block, awesome range and can lead to a RO combo. C3A considered one of the best moves in the game has an auto-GI window that repels mids and highs, it also crushes highs, gives good advantage on block, tracks one side, and can RO from a good distance with C2BB. She has the best step in the game, and a good back step as well which helps for Whiff Punishment into Doom Combo. A B grab that RO's/switches side and does ok dmg along with the A grab and good grab range. Monstrous.
Amy: The main moves that come to mind when you think of Amy would be 2B+K and 3B/33B. A low that KD's and gives Oki as well as a mid that does the same. Both moves crush highs at some point in their animation and 3B/33B track to one side and can give up to 50 dmg with Oki. She has great interrupts and punishers in 6BB(an i11 high that gives adv. on hit, allows her to go into stance and having 236B uninterrupted on block), 2A(quick Special low that crushes highs and gives adv. on hit and CH), WS B (i13 high that cause shakeable stun on hit and allows her to mix-up 3BA/33B/2B+K/Grab), WS K (Safe, body attack that crushes high and KD's on hit), and 3A (i14 tracking move that gives adv on hit, safe on block.) She has also other annoying moves like 1A, 66A+B, and 4A. All of these moves are unsafe, but help her in her tracking, since Amy's main weakness is stepping to her right. Her other weaknesses are grab range and damage. But her tracking sticks out the most. Simple, yet effective Amy is good for even beginners to pick up and start owning noobs.
Voldo: The best SG game out of all characters, with damage and moves that even crush mids. Starting out with the SG game, moves like 3BB, 66A+B (Mid with range, KD's), CR A+B (High, great range, KD's only -2), and 2A+B (SCC optional) are all great moves that crush in less than 10. From Blind Stance (BS) he has BS 2BK, BS 1A (low, KD, pushback, recovers crouch, and only -16), and BS 3B are all stupid great moves that break in less than 10 as well. 1K is safe, crushes mids, and puts him in BS. BS A+B is just reverse Asura, high but safe. BS 3B on CH leads to 90+ (BS 3B, 3B, 3B. JF techable tho.) For punishing he has 6:6B which leads to RO, i16 and is only -12. Far range grabs from CR are great, and CR B is a low that RO's, the K KD's and leaves him grounded (along with plenty of other moves he has), which doesn't give much punishment. Voldo is pretty weak to step tho. Don't be fooled tho, he does have damaging step killers in BS 22A and BS 3A work pretty well for that too. And he can still grab out of stance. Damage, SG damage, and an awesome RO game (damn those Mantis Crawl RO combos) pretty much separates Voldo from the rest of the cast.
Setsuka: Setsuka is deadly. She can fight you at any range and deal damage like a bitch. 66A tracks at far range and bring her in with adv. its also safe on block, but high. 33B is a safe mid-range launcher that can deal about 50+. Moves like A+K,A and 66B+K also deserve mention. At close range, she can be insane. She has great punishers since her A is i11, 44B+K is i14 high and KD's with good damage, JF Umbrella is i12, 1B:B at i17, and B+K for anything i23 and up. If she's ever in position for Oki, which will prolly be often, with all the early KD's she has she can make u guess with 1AAA and B+K. B+K ending in umbrella RO's behind her and is only -14, regular ender still nets her 90 dmg. Umbrella ender with a wall gets her a nice chunk of 100+. 1AAA is unsafe, but its a i22 low so its not so easy to see. It RO's to her right and in front of her. Umbrella set-ups are often seen since it's so fast, hits mid, RO's and does good damage. 4A is a safe retreating high, that crushes highs and tracks. On CH it stuns to give her B+K for 90 damage. Superb. Her grabs are amazing as well as having good grab range. They all leave her in good positions. Sides and back included. A grab can tech trap if she needs to, and can RO behind her. B grab does good damage and leaves them right in front you, and command grab does damage and can RO in front of her. If she had to have a weakness it would probably be her lack of lows seeing as how the other ones are seeable and unsafe. But with 1A and grabs, that should be enough to make an opponent duck. This bitch is serious.
Algol
Kilik
Upper Mid
Cervantes
Ivy
Astaroth
Yoshimitsu
Mitsurugi
Mid Tier
Zasalamel
Taki
Raphael
Nightmare
Siegfried
Lizardman
Lower Mid
The Apprentice
Yun-seong
Maxi
Talim
Tira
Bottom
Rock
Seong-Mina
Yoda
A is awesome but also stupid unsafe and the range on it is gimped and her pressure in terms of closing space for using it isn't as great as someone like Amy. She is a notch lower than those in the top.
