SCV may still need patches...

Alex.J

[14] Master
The community is to blame for shaping opinions on balance.
I already did. But watching by saying "just look he won some match" doesn't mean anything. You have to put your analysis deeper. The main question is "why did it happen ?". I invite you to watch them again, and try to answer this question properly.


Anyway, tier raisonement computed with tournament results is a big mistake. (or casual results, or online results...)
-Because the human factor has still something to do (basics, mind game, management of the preasure etc)
-The game is still young, no one is playing every MU properly. The general level is still low.
(exemple just to remember :
, is zaz-ivy balanced is SCIV ?)
The tier list can have an impact on tournament results, but the opposite is not true (for instance it's not because OmegaDR and Keev won some tournaments with Nightmare that this character had to be top tier, and that he derserved to be nerf)


Shen yuan, are you talking about this alpha player ?
Are you kidding me ? :-)
But, yeah, at the beginning of the game he played Siegfried a little, you're right. Here some vids, what conclusions can you do with ?
But well, serious question now, what do you know about Siegfried ?? Do you know something about his MU ? In this case maybe you can come in Siegfried SA and explain everyones how to manage them ! Or did you just watch some shen yuan vids one year ago to get this conclusion ? Or any other Siegfried player who was winning some matchs ? Did you do the same with raphael or any other character to get your general conclusion ?



About what you like and how, I don't know, and to be honest I absolutely don't care. :-) . I guess you misunderstood me.
The standard norms of thinking ? Are you talking about your standard norms of thinking ?
Most of people think that the game is balanced ? is that a "feeling" or did you make a serious study about this ?
On my side I know that a lot of players left the game or change their main characters only because of the balance. In some countries Viola is banned... Can all of this happen if most of people think that the game is balanced ? in this case why ?


Edit : to avoid any personnal attack. my results at SCV are better than they were at SCIV. In SCIV Siegfried was totally ok IMO, a solid mid tier. I still think that SCIV was not balanced either. Anyway my opinion about the balance is an overall conclusion.
Talk about missing the point, I brought up good players doing good things with their characters to show it's possible to win and do well with them. This isn't the only factor in terms of judging tier placement or viability, but it's definitely and important one. It's important to not get carried away with looking at victories, but I think everyone changed their opinion a little bit when Decapon won Evo. Why? Because some people had low opinions of Tira and here is someone winning one of the biggest tourneys ever with her. This is what we call evidence. Although IRM has never won any big tourneys, he has done very well in tourneys with Maxi using a very limited move set. It definitely opened my eyes on the character and I think I can say likewise for a lot of people. If we aren't taking real life into consideration, we are just theory fighting. Although this is just a videogame and you are a giant idiot. I like to look at all information and decisions as critically as possible.

As far as the general consensus, I agree I didn't take a poll. My bad, but It takes no effort to see what the average opinion of the game is. Lots of players including a lot of the top players will agree this game is very balanced. Most people will agree Viola is broke, but in terms of viability through out the cast, it's quite large. This game has a gigantic mid tier section. Could Viola use some fixes? sure. But there is a reason why most communities have a lot of different characters being used in tourneys. In a true unbalanced game like MVC2, you really do only get the top tier characters getting played. Pretty much storm and magneto were on every team, this isn't the case for SC5. Why? Because most people can play the character they like and do well with them.

The real question is that do YOU know Siegfried? It really seems like you don't. You seem to take it in your hands to be some type of expert on the subject, but you aren't even in the running. What makes you qualified to be the official on the subject? Because you lose and complain? Seems like you should let the real players talk then.
 

IRM

[12] Conqueror
The problem everyone seems to have is that Europe has a different version of SCV, where all the powerful characters are shit, and the weak characters are also shit. Thus the results of PAL SCV.
 

Slade

[14] Master
IRM, for the joke to be funny you have to suspend the listener's expectations through allusion. If you explain the parameters of the joke it ceases to provide that "Oh, I get it!" moment and is no longer funny.

Also, incoming exposure of Pantocritter by the Jimbonator?
 

FixdSwine

[10] Knight
IRM, for the joke to be funny you have to suspend the listener's expectations through allusion. If you explain the parameters of the joke it ceases to provide that "Oh, I get it!" moment and is no longer funny.

Also, incoming exposure of Pantocritter by the Jimbonator?
No need for that Slade. We've all seen Jimbo get exposed by the Amazing Vile
 

Pantocrator

[10] Knight
Decopon won EVO and WGC because the level in UE and USA is low.
On my side, even if I didn't win any major, my tournament results are quite well, especialy those last months. (mainly because the level is low).
Get your facts straight.

But well, I won't argue with you guys.
First because I said everything I had to say. (Saitoh's post is also saying a lot...)
Second because like usual, nothing constructive. No solid argumentation.

I won't bother your world more longer. SCV don't need any patch. The game is balanced, MU like Alpha vs Raphael are so interessting to play or to watch. Every character is strong, everyone is happy, all of those whiff are legits. Please Namco do it again for SCVI !!!
 

Party Wolf

Administrator
Decopon won EVO and WGC because the level in UE and USA is low.
On my side, even if I didn't win any major, my tournament results are quite well, especialy those last months. (mainly because the level is low).
Get your facts straight.
So what you are saying is that you lose to people who aren't good, but you know about the game's balance? I've never heard anyone justify their opinions by saying they are at a low level of play.
 

JAGTHEGEMINI

[12] Conqueror
The problem everyone seems to have is that Europe has a different version of SCV, where all the powerful characters are shit, and the weak characters are also shit. Thus the results of PAL SCV.
Well, you see things look different on the other side of the ocean...

There, I said it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IRM

Alex.J

[14] Master
Decopon won EVO and WGC because the level in UE and USA is low.
On my side, even if I didn't win any major, my tournament results are quite well, especialy those last months. (mainly because the level is low).
Get your facts straight.

But well, I won't argue with you guys.
First because I said everything I had to say. (Saitoh's post is also saying a lot...)
Second because like usual, nothing constructive. No solid argumentation.

I won't bother your world more longer. SCV don't need any patch. The game is balanced, MU like Alpha vs Raphael are so interessting to play or to watch. Every character is strong, everyone is happy, all of those whiff are legits. Please Namco do it again for SCVI !!!
Even if you didn't win a major? Just say you didn't, because well, you didn't. And if you really were good, I doubt you would be whining so much. My bad for not shedding tears over characters and actually playing the game.
 

Malice

Super Moderator
If you want to see some real lopsided matchups, play Street Fighter. Imbalance? Play Marvel or go back to SC4. Did we forget how imbalanced the past couple of games were?

And who's actually saying that SCV doesn't need patches? People would kill for an update to this game, but it doesn't matter since Namco stopped patching the game a long time ago and is now working on SC2HD/F2P stuff.

Balance is a different subject. The majority of the cast can compete in this game which is evident in the tournament results and from the responses from the players.

Am I happy with SCV? Sure. Would I be happier if Namco still supported the game? Absolutely. Does SCV suck because Sieg needs buffs? No. There's plenty of other characters on the roster that don't suck. Choose one.
 

Jimbonator

[14] Master
Decopon won EVO and WGC because the level in UE and USA is low.
On my side, even if I didn't win any major, my tournament results are quite well, especialy those last months. (mainly because the level is low).
Get your facts straight.

But well, I won't argue with you guys.
First because I said everything I had to say. (Saitoh's post is also saying a lot...)
Second because like usual, nothing constructive. No solid argumentation.

I won't bother your world more longer. SCV don't need any patch. The game is balanced, MU like Alpha vs Raphael are so interessting to play or to watch. Every character is strong, everyone is happy, all of those whiff are legits. Please Namco do it again for SCVI !!!
What's the point of these statements if you yourself cannot defend them? Are you meaning to tell me your wins in SC4 were hard fought top level victories while your SC5 victories are just low level scrub mashfests? You also love to bitch and put words in our mouth. Everyone here can agree that 1 more patch would've been fantastic, but the truth is it isn't coming and so we have to harness the current meta. WHICH IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY GOOD META.

I fail to see where the other, more thought out responses to you lacked any argumentation. All I see is a fool preaching nonsense who unfortunately has a following of other like-minded fools.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
I asked why Rock and Mina are so weak. I had those two in mind because it is beyond ridiculous how weak they are. The answer was (translated by his friend, Utoh) :

" Can you imagine Rock being stronger or even as strong as Astaroth ? Or Mina being on the same level as Kilik ? "
He meant on a lore point of view.
You're right I did find this hard to believe. At least this shows how important it is to have non-clone movesets (aside from the game play differentiation) by eliminating this argument. However, the only part that is strange is that both pyrrha and omega pyrrha are stronger in gameplay than most of the rest of the cast (and certainly higher than average).

Yes, those characters were made weak on purpose because they're supposed to be "weak" in the calibur story, anyway in Daishi's eyes. That's also probably why Raphael is constantly low tier since SC3 or Talim. I dunno for sure for others characters but you know it's a factor in tier balancing, anyway it was for SC4.
Need a better storyline for Raph then lol. Though SC4 amy's storyline was pretty much the same so I don't get it.
---
I value insight on the mentality of the japanese, so I can better understand and cope with the decisions of the developers.
 

Saitoh

[10] Knight
I understand, but I can assure you he was dead serious haha.
I cant say anything for sure about SC5 tho. This chat was about SC4 and mainly how weak the bottom tiers are in this game.
 

Omega

[12] Conqueror
Really are we still in the Sieg sucks???? REALLYYYY ???? well if you use him like this of course he sucks,
, taking Viola out of the picture, i think all chars have a lot of tools, like malice said see tournament results that says a lot, Tira was low tier and won evo, sure lowtier...., instead of complaining why don't you learn how to poke more with sieg, make the other player play your game and use your big guns then, 3b safe? and still low tier?? o god....
 
Last edited:

Omega

[12] Conqueror
Aeon sucked... here comes reptile, sieg sucks here comes shen yuan and me, tira sucks here comes evo champion, alpha the best char in the game or so they say only whoazz and maxou use him...., if you can't win with a char does not mean that the char is bad, specially if all of the chars in this game have tools, ZASALAMEL from 4, AA unsafe, BB unsafe, B+K(0 damage) UNSAFE, 2 B+K unsafe on hit, and i could keep going, but i found a way, now compare zas from 4 and tell me is there a char so bad in 5 as bad as zas from 4??? unfortunatly sc4 was so unbalanced that there were fights that could not be done with my char, this is not the case in SC5.
 

Pantocrator

[10] Knight
if you can't win with a char does not mean that the char is bad,
Lol I can imagine
"Oh, I did some finals, I'm loosing so much with this character, I'm so bad, I need an excuse !"

Siegfried sucks ? where did I say that in this topic ? Between "to be strong" and "to suck" there is some steps I guess.
But some people want so much to focus on this... I guess it's the easiest way !

SCIV ? During the firsts years of the game people said that it was balanced too.

Well, this time I'm really out, have fun :-)