Master_Thespian
Imminent Heel Turn
They would have still considered themselves Greek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Greeks#Identity
SCV- New CHARACTER ideas
- Thread starter Gatsu
- Start date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Greeks#Identity
Bailster
[10] Knight
Absolutely - we don't use the title "Count" in England. Our equivalent is "Earl" - but strangely, "Countess" is the correct title for the wife of an Earl! They did correct it as of V.
On the nationality discussion, I guess it depends on the character - for example, Spain, Japan and England existed in 1607 within similar parameters as they do in the modern era (albeit with larger international territories) - England is still a kingdom nowadays, albeit a united one, and Mits is definitely a "Japanese" character and Cervantes is "Spanish".
Some characters like Voldo come from regions that no longer exist - the Kingdom of Naples is now part of Italy as a whole, so we default to him being "Italian", even though that is strictly speaking incorrect, (I guess he'd be Neapolitan?) Similarly with Talim as Rep mentioned.
I think the character design is influenced more on a cultural basis (samurai = Japan, knight = German, monkey-shoutout = China), as opposed to a nationality box-tick. So someone like Setsuka clearly represents an element of Japanese culture - the geisha (or more accurately Oiran), but not necessarily by birth. Even someone like Ivy, who seems at first glance to be quite unstereotypically English, has clever cultural touches in her design, such as the Tudor Rose incorporated into her armor/earrings etc, which definitely shows that Namco do care about and research cultural relevance/iconography.
I really hope they do reveal more about ZWEI from his story - "Unknown" is (I assume) used to create mystery, but unless that mystery is revealed, I do agree that it is just lazy. Everybody comes from somewhere, afterall. And if they are still going to produce detailed bios, they shouldn't skimp on the information - I personally appreciate the detail as it helps me engage with the character. Someone with "Unknown" on nearly all entries comes across as a flat character to me, but that's probably because I'm a bit of a culture&history nut :)
LilikaHeart
[08] Mercenary
How can you say that it's full shit if you don't even bother to read what I wrote. Its just obnoxious. Don't do it I get your message about black people. I have the right to express myself quite as you. Read books about the world's culture and history and leave me in peace. I understand that's must be too complicated for you.
back to topic
Maybe my very long post is showing that we won't die if you don't show any black in SC because they have nothing to do in your dear eurasian world. It must be racism or bigotry or something like that.
Someone tell me if my english isn't good becauce I usually speak french.
I was giving you some ideas by mixing some part of real historic costumes and fantasy quite as they did for the other characters. If I was a developer this is what I would have to do.
Soul Calibur is just good for its different fighting styles and gameplay. Also it shouldn't claim toreflect the reality. They don't care about the race or origin of the people. There must be a problem somewhere in it if one begins to have that feeling that the next characters should be dark skinned or black then. I'm beginning to be satisfied about what I've got and read about black people in reality. Fighting against racists who don't want blacks in their world is useless in this case. It's not reality so it shouldn't be a necessity for us blacks, to be a part of a game like SC.
Bailster
[10] Knight
To be honest, most of us like Zas (he's a good design/good weapon/ interesting design nods to both Babylon and Egypt) and he's often mentioned by members here as one of the last veterans they hope to return in V, but I think you're putting him up on a pedestal far more than he is intended to be. He's a a good character who happens to be black, not a shining beacon of hope.
REPROBEAN_CHILD
[14] Master
He didn't say anything bad about black people; he just didn't understand your post and he wasn't the only one either. Your post was a mess; it had a bunch of ideas put together and most of it was about black people in general. It had little to do with SC. Don't start pointing the racist finger here.
I don't know exactly what you mean in the last paragraph, but it seems to me that you're implying that Namco and Project Soul are most likely racist because of the lack on black characters in SC. Making that implication is pure bigotry. I doubt either company worked on the game and said, "Hmm, I don't think we need to add more black people in this game."
Yes, Zas was the only black character, but Cervantes was the only hispanic. There was no outcry about that. There are a lot of other nationalities not in the series (no Indians, Russians, Bulgarians, Irish, Arabic, etc,.). With that mind set, ANY game (or movie, tv show, book, or anything) that doesn't represent different nationalities should be deemed racist for not including certain people.
You are right about one thing; they give little importance about the race and origins of that characters. But that only shows that they care about the characters as individuals, not as someone from *insert country*. That's not a bad thing.
Norik
[14] Master
I really don't care if he's black, or white, or Asian, or whatever the hell Namco make him. What I care about is his fighting style. Damn, he could be an anthropomorphic three headed tiger with four boobs, as long as his fighting style is in.
deuxhero
[10] Knight
ZWEI being listed as "Unknown" does not mean it isn't known, it means the chick who also has a spirit wolf thing from TTT! </tinhat>
LilikaHeart
[08] Mercenary
Angol fear is an alien and Setsuka have nothing to do with SC or SE. I just know that your game will count white and asian only so I decided to show black people only for once. I doesn't often happen so I did it. I don't trust Namco for black people. I thought you'd be satisfied with your Siegfried but I notice that no. There is plenty of whites and asians in beautiful costumes in video games. All the attention is only for them. So I posted my message. Cervantes isn't the only one european.
REPROBEAN_CHILD
[14] Master
Why would you make race play a factor? Well of course the game is mostly white and asian, but that's because the game itself was set in Europe and Asia. But even so, I don't even care about that and hardly anyone on this site does. People play the characters because they like their designs, their fighting styles, and personality. No one plays a character based on nationality or race, because that's a stupid reason to play a character.
Somehow, you're giving me the impression that Namco is somewhat obligated to have black people. You come off as one of those people who think blacks are somehow more deserving to be in the media than any other race. That's both bullshit and offense to non-blacks. In fact, anyone would find your comment ignorant, even black people. I like Zas, but it's because he's a great character, not because he's black. Namco didn't make SC to make a multicultural game anyway. It's about WEAPONS, not about the culture that makes them. Stop focusing on fucking nationalities and look as the characters as themselves, not as representatives.
I don't like the direction this thread is headed. If you feel the need to continue this point of view, then stop.
LilikaHeart
[08] Mercenary
I don't thank you very much
Kai_lombax
[13] Hero
I understand what LilikaHeart is trying to say but I have to agree. The game was never about nationalities. It was about bringing weapons of all types together into a big battle of combat. Sword vs sword/axe/etc. That's the magic of Soul Calibur. And how they make such intricate moves for said weapons. I feel they had their characters follow under certain nationalites so that it could help make the weapon they were representing more substantial and authentic. But like I said, it was never mean't to be strictly about nationalities.
Before you start pointing out that I'm racist, I'm black myself and I don't like it when fellow blacks think so highly of our race where they think they should be given this and that. That's just ignorant and in my opinion, everyone should be equal. Zas may be the only character of dark skin in Soul Calibur but that's not why he is liked. He hass one of the coolest Scythe styled moves in a fighting game in my opinion and an awesome ability (being able to reincarnate and use magic). That's what makes him stand out. So yeah, just remember to play the game because it's fun and not hate on it since they don't include *insert race* here. The game is and never was about that.
Before you start pointing out that I'm racist, I'm black myself and I don't like it when fellow blacks think so highly of our race where they think they should be given this and that. That's just ignorant and in my opinion, everyone should be equal. Zas may be the only character of dark skin in Soul Calibur but that's not why he is liked. He hass one of the coolest Scythe styled moves in a fighting game in my opinion and an awesome ability (being able to reincarnate and use magic). That's what makes him stand out. So yeah, just remember to play the game because it's fun and not hate on it since they don't include *insert race* here. The game is and never was about that.
Reave
[13] Hero
Another situation where CaS is your friend. Afro Samurai isn't an official character in SC but I seen him more than Zasalamel. Instead of going all pro-black on here, start with it in game and represent Zas by kicking ass.
Gatsu
[14] Master
LOL,again the nationalities thing
SC chara design IS helped by nationality (or better by nationality-stereotype),specially in first chapters of the saga
Japanese samurai, german knight, spanish pirate, french fencer and so on
SC, like SF born like the classic fight game where fighters(often unintentionally representative,nobody got a flag on the ass but often they bring in a role) from many different countries clash and beat up each other,creating a nice mix of different cultures
Sure,many other factors help to give ideas,like famous historic or fiction characters, legends or folklore stories, movies, anime, manga... most important SC char have one (usually more) clear ispirations
Nationality is not a MUST,but if you want sell me your char as an interessing one give him a strong identity is important,and nationality help.
Said that,a good character concept without precise nationality is possible? Obviously yes
Look at Tira,her chara-design is all about european acrobat-jester-street artist,these peoples were vagrants,travelers,most of them maybe don't even know where they born.
Here the unknow nationality help the character,is part of the prototype
but overall nationality/prototype/role char just got more identity,his chara design is stronger
You watch Mitsu and even before read a single word about him his design alone give you informations... you watch Zwei and what is It is nothing,just random fantasy zomg i'm a wannabe badass nobody
Or Natsu,Lol. You watch Taki and yo see THE SC kunoichi,you watch Natsu and you just see some anime reject (in this particular cas,a marketing blowjob to Naruto audience)
I understand ignorant kids jizz in theyr pants and that's smart marketing feed the sheeps,but please
About black characters argument
Obvious,i WANT at least a black char
I want it more than a white one?
Fucking yes,not because is more important,but because in these cross-cultures fight games etnic(and not only) VARIETY is the key word to design a good cast, and as now a black dude will bring in more variety than another white european,maybe another german lol (i'm looking at you Salia,stay the fuck out). Same for a middle-east char. Or an indian one. I will welcome them,are potentially missing roles
But also as variety in every possible sense,example body types... a very fat char? a lanky 2 meters char? Yes please
A fight game cast need huge characters, etnic exotic peoples, freaks, and so on as it need boringcool fighters and sexy babes
A cast with 15 pretty boys and 15 random anime girls is just so fail
Personally i(as dude that studied design,work in that sector,and gain money from it) take a char with solid etnic/historic/prototype/tradition/role design over any random nonsense anime bs
SC chara design IS helped by nationality (or better by nationality-stereotype),specially in first chapters of the saga
Japanese samurai, german knight, spanish pirate, french fencer and so on
SC, like SF born like the classic fight game where fighters(often unintentionally representative,nobody got a flag on the ass but often they bring in a role) from many different countries clash and beat up each other,creating a nice mix of different cultures
Sure,many other factors help to give ideas,like famous historic or fiction characters, legends or folklore stories, movies, anime, manga... most important SC char have one (usually more) clear ispirations
Nationality is not a MUST,but if you want sell me your char as an interessing one give him a strong identity is important,and nationality help.
Said that,a good character concept without precise nationality is possible? Obviously yes
Look at Tira,her chara-design is all about european acrobat-jester-street artist,these peoples were vagrants,travelers,most of them maybe don't even know where they born.
Here the unknow nationality help the character,is part of the prototype
but overall nationality/prototype/role char just got more identity,his chara design is stronger
You watch Mitsu and even before read a single word about him his design alone give you informations... you watch Zwei and what is It is nothing,just random fantasy zomg i'm a wannabe badass nobody
Or Natsu,Lol. You watch Taki and yo see THE SC kunoichi,you watch Natsu and you just see some anime reject (in this particular cas,a marketing blowjob to Naruto audience)
I understand ignorant kids jizz in theyr pants and that's smart marketing feed the sheeps,but please
About black characters argument
Obvious,i WANT at least a black char
I want it more than a white one?
Fucking yes,not because is more important,but because in these cross-cultures fight games etnic(and not only) VARIETY is the key word to design a good cast, and as now a black dude will bring in more variety than another white european,maybe another german lol (i'm looking at you Salia,stay the fuck out). Same for a middle-east char. Or an indian one. I will welcome them,are potentially missing roles
But also as variety in every possible sense,example body types... a very fat char? a lanky 2 meters char? Yes please
A fight game cast need huge characters, etnic exotic peoples, freaks, and so on as it need boringcool fighters and sexy babes
A cast with 15 pretty boys and 15 random anime girls is just so fail
Personally i(as dude that studied design,work in that sector,and gain money from it) take a char with solid etnic/historic/prototype/tradition/role design over any random nonsense anime bs
Norik
[14] Master
Then how can you possibly be a Hwang fan? Let alone even like him!
Reave
[13] Hero
I looked at Natsu and saw a ninja in SC and I love Naruto. It wasn't til people drew these lines that I saw it. Everyone wants to make comparisons so much that's why we get a revamped SC with goku, naruto and Vampire hunter D making guest appearances.
Gatsu
[14] Master
Aside spiky hairs(wich are'nt a problem) i don't see the anime randomness,specially on his 1p they try to keep his design korean related.
His style(most iconic surely the SC1 version) was one of the most realistic and based on real martial arts
Also being patriot and soldier serving his country in a (historically accurate) war age was an realistic unique role,plus he was well set historically and the rivalry with Mitsu back to SB (korean-japanese war) was a great -dropped- idea
Under that point of view i was pissed when they replaced him with a Final Fantasy wannabe reject with orange hairs,wich only reason is a marketing "let's do a teen flashy cocky version of it,kids will like him!"
As chara design Yun was the same feed the sheeps that today is Zwei
Kai_lombax
[13] Hero
As another person who studied character design a little in school, I see where you are coming from. Though I will admit, I do like Zwei because while Namo is using that "unknown" answer to questions about him, his design isn't all that bad and I'm hoping that when the game is out, it will have revealed information about him.
But if there's one thing I don't ike (And I'm probably going to receive some hate) is when game companies mix in so much anime influence in characters. This is partially why I didn't like Natsu at first. That blonde hair and style was just... A bit much but her personality is what's drawing me into her character because she has this mature vibe for her age thing going. But she does look like an anime reject (no offense to her fans). I didn't really feel the same about Yun-Seong until you mentioned his orange hair. But at least his outfit concepts were pretty authentic with a fantasy flair. Hwang will always be my favorite but Yun-Seong isn't so bad, emphasis on "so".
I think the reason why I'm wondering about the direction of Namco is because I remember in the first games (Soul Edge, Soul Calibur, & partially SCII), they didn't take so much from anime influences (excluding the artwork because it did look pretty anime). But in SCIII, they somewhat did and the first character I noticed was Taki's 2P outfit. But I'm guessing Namco is going with the anime trend since practically everyone is obsessed with it these days. But at the same time, they don't go overboard with it, at least not yet and I hope they don't because I guess I'm one of the few fans who enjoyed their fantasy/semi realism approach.
Anyway, just my 2 cents on this little comment haha.
Bailster
[10] Knight
Agreed mate,
Compared to SC4, in this most recent iteration of the series, we've seen a (merciful) return to the less ridiculous costume/character design last seen in SC 2/3. The unfortunate exception is Natsu I'm afraid, who's ninja-barbie look is totally out of sync with the awesome new look seen in the rest of the cast and which is why she was met with a generally WTF? reaction by the fans (on the whole).
Pat, Py, Leixia and Xiba are great new design additions, and definitely fit within the spirit and vibe of the SC universe. Natsu, on the other hand, looks like she was designed by a 12 year old girl who accessed SC3 CAS and went nuts. It'd be understandable if the majority of the cast were similarly neon, gaudy and childish, but they're not - so Natsu sticks out like a (glittery) sore thumb......
Gatsu
[14] Master
Agree,and to be fair even Zwei seem someway saved by his 2p
Counting that Zwei 1p can just be avoided by selecting 2p, Natsu is the only fat ass fail of SCV chara design
Just hope there is a Taki-skin (3d model,name,voice,quotes) with her style... i think they are going to follow that route A LOT,putting all missing classic characters as skin
They said that there are going to be some characters hidden in Story mode,my logic assumption is skin-characters
Bailster
[10] Knight
I haven't seen Zwei's 2p yet mate - is it good? A Taki skin would be awesome!