Are Sieg players just pissed they didn't get the S-tier character that was in beta? You of all people should know that buffing a character relentlessly and potentially needlessly is not the answer.
The only things I see wrong with Sieg at this point are JF agA being slower, whiffing, and a some of his A+Bs in stances were removed. Yoshi got nerfed in several areas but most players are just learning to live with it and craft new tech with what they were given. Sieg will honestly be fine, especially damage wise, once the off-axis shit is fixed. If Namco was really kind they would fix agA as well and maybe tack on more of a perk for CE. But otherwise, separate what you think should happen and what actually objectively should happen in regards to the balance of a character and game.
A few points:
- He was not S-tier at any point, ever. I have no idea why this misconception ever happened.
- JF agA has always been slower, and not really a point of contention for me - if it were faster than regular agA instead of slower, it'd be an i15 mid-to-long range meterless punisher, which would be completely stupid for him of all people to have. He is not a Greek, and "buffing a character relentlessly and potentially needlessly is not the answer".
- Whiffing is a terrible issue for him. It also plagues most of the roster and not just him - I'm not sure if it's something that can be definitively "fixed", at least in every single case.
- Not some, but all of his A+Bs were removed.
But again, this doesn't tell me why you think he's good, only why you think he isn't bad. You begin with the tired old rhetoric we have heard so many times from many people, some of whom have never played him at all, and
some who have dropped him not even the week after they've picked him up. You're telling all of us, people who have put years behind this character, people who have been trying tirelessly to make him work, people who have known multiple iterations of him like the backs of our hands, that we're not working hard enough, that we're whining too much, that we have no idea what we're talking about. When you make those kind of statements, it is going to get our attention and we are going to call you out on it, because it means that you're either spreading misinformation, or you genuinely know something that we do not and we want you to share it with us so we can make this character work, which is something we desperately want above all else.
I also find the accusation of me being ignorant of design ironic when it comes from someone who wants to give Siegfried an i15 meterless JF mid-to-long range, 42 damage before Clean Hits and walls punish - we're not α. Block punish has never been Siegfried's design intent, it has always focused around spacing (agA, B6, 3aA, 22A, 6B) and stance roulette, with a minor emphasis on Guard Damage in the past two games. I've already covered why his stance roulette does not work to a coherent design intent at all
in this post. Giving him buffs in stance that are related to their overall intent - for example, giving SSH A+B back to assist in whiff punishing from stance - is completely in line with design intent and not at all ignorant of the character and game as a whole - in short, it makes fucking sense.
EDIT: Also why would you ever listen to Synraii, and better yet why would you take his voice to be representative of all of our voices? EDITEDIT: Oh, wait, what he said there is basically everything I'm saying now minus people calling for a ban - they just wanted a completely stupid, unneeded nerf, which they got. I guess that vindicates Synraii completely. I should probably frame that thread.
And, to wit:
This is one of the major problems I take with people saying he was broken in any way, shape or form. Watching pre-build videos as a Siegfried player, you can just see the character ignorance dripping off of everyone - it had nothing to do with the characters themselves, but the lack of knowledge about them. This has always been the case for Siegfried - alright early on, gets worse with age, like a shitty wine.
