Siegfried Videos

correction

SBH B is not guaranteed off of auto GI unless you GI it at the end of SBH right before you are vulnerable. Unless you do that they can block

44 is good yes but depending on the situation. if the opponent doesnt have much health left then I`d go for 66B. If they have alot of health then yes, 44 would be ideal since you can follow with SBH K for a tech trap or SBH B if you think they will lay there or what you said go into RSH.

I personally dont care for SSH [A] since on block the opponent gets whatever they want for a punish and the risk/reward factor isnt worth it.
 
I use a single SSH[A] for continued stance dancing pretty often, and poke at them with looped SSH A's until they start responding and ducking. If I haven't already switched to SSH and they block the SSH A, I finish the string to keep them in check.
 



Ok the first vid is me vs ultrascrub who is very new to the game, just some dancing and JagA.

Now the second vid is me vs Wingzero in W4 (quarterfinals). This was a good match because at a few points, we both notice the others play style and adapt and then change our gameplay. Now I lost 2-1 in this match but hopefully it will provide useful help for when you guys go up against kilik players. Now just to comment on my abusive use of 88 , this move and 8 B+K are great aginst Kilik since it SS just about everything that kilik has to offer when it comes to linear moves (ex: WS B, 66B, FC 3B,). These moves are some of Kiliks bread and butter moves. Now of course moves like 6AA and any hortizontal will stop it but thats up to you to adapt to see what the opponent favors. Wing Zero was def the better player this match and cant wait for my rematch =)
 
u played really really well

I think u could've taken it from him with MUCH more aggressive play with WS mixups. WS A is the gigas vs step. Your 88 use was PERFECT.

Reason why i say take it to him is cuz Kilik, is reliant on spacing, noone does it like him...so playing spacing vs spacing, is really in his favor unless Kilik messes up. When u take it to him now, your mixups > his. Also he has to be careful with WS B. You will then have to worry about 66B, and 6AA, but you have 8B+K and WS stuff for that.
 
Amazing use of the step in 2_8B+K and 88. Nice adjustments, but overall, I think you could have done a lot more stance mixups after most knockdowns.
 
Well the reason why you didnt see me use too much stance mix ups is because I knew who I was going up against. He is primarily all Defense and loves to interrupt with WS B, not to mention he gets that same move off of the sweep and a 6AA after the RSH B. Since he has a really good D, I had to figure out a way to make him come to me and it was working for a bit but overall yes you(botsu) and and HN were right, I should have been more aggressive with my offense.
 
You should work in 44B, B as a follow up to stun on SRSH B. It'll not only hit guaranteed if you get the timing right, but it tends to make people roll left or right afterward, meaning you then get a 1AA tech trap. Good damage.
 
I finally have some videos up from a tourney yesterday.

Botsu(SIEG) vs. Shenrei(SETS) - Casuals

Botsu(SIEG) vs. RushdownSorrel(MITS)

Botsu(SIEG) vs. Manta(VOL)

Me against Manta is a complete ass raping (me taking it). Manta's Voldo is vicious and I have no idea what to do =/ Finally have a console to play at home rather then only at gatherings/at my brothers. Have fun watching it =P

Criticism is most welcomed!
 
Botsu said:
I finally have some videos up from a tourney yesterday.

Botsu(SIEG) vs. Shenrei(SETS) - Casuals

Botsu(SIEG) vs. RushdownSorrel(MITS)

Botsu(SIEG) vs. Manta(VOL)

Me against Manta is a complete ass raping (me taking it). Manta's Voldo is vicious and I have no idea what to do =/ Finally have a console to play at home rather then only at gatherings/at my brothers. Have fun watching it =P

Criticism is most welcomed!
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More 6A! That's it though, you had some good repeated mind games/mixups.
 
For SRSH K, mix it up with things like 22B (block), B or move right into SRSH when you have frame advantage. Follow with 44BB on hit if you're not near edge of the ring. A good opponent will learn to fear the SRSH B, 44BB damage more than SRSH K and you create a guessing game, wheras now you are very predictable and better players will repeatedly punish SRSH K.

Also throw in SRSH A+B to create range against short range characters. And use 4B/WR B/6B/6A/aGA to push back any of them who want to run in.
 
Botsu said:
=/ 6A is good, but more often then not I'd rather agA_jagA. 6A is a somewhat situational move to me, I try not to whore it out.
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Im not saying whore it, but it is two frames faster than aga, and can be a great counter. I think it also RO's to the opposite side of aga.
 
The thing is, if 22B is blocked, it's major disadvantage. I use SRSH K as a desperation attempt to TC anything they throw out. Another reason i'm using SRSH K after 22B is to train them to start blocking low to make it a mixup. Until they know about it, I don't need to worry about it and I take advantage of them not blocking low. Its not worth using SRSH B and getting punished on block if I know I can hit SRSH K right? This is where you contradict yourself. There's several the match goes through. If the players are new to each other, mixups aren't even created and it's not until someone BLOCKS the first part of the mixup, that the second part of the mixup can start.

In Me vs. Rushdown, he gets hit by 4-5 SRSH K's, then SRSH A+B, blocks the next K and gets hit by SRSH B. The SRSH is a guessing game every Siegfried knows about, this may make me sound like an ass, but SRSH mixup isn't something that really needs to be told to any Sieg player. If it doesn't look like I know what it is yet, then I must be doing it wrong.

Regarding SRSH B 44BB leaves you in front of their face with bad frames. 1AA creates enough distance to make it Siegfried's optimal range for more stance mixups and, if i'm not mistaken, gives nearly the same amount of damage anyways.

SRSH A+B is used sparingly. If i'm holding pressure on them, I'd rather make them guess between SRSH K and B, unless i'm low on health and can't afford to be punished for using B as my mid option. Both give much better wakes, while SRSH A+B resets the game with them.

4B is probably one of Sieg's worst moves. 6B is also incredibly situational. It's so friggen linear.

IMO Sieg's range game consists of B6 agA 3B 3A and WS AA.

Actual criticism please. This is what people talk about normally, not what happened in the matches.
 
coth_x said:
Im not saying whore it, but it is two frames faster than aga, and can be a great counter. I think it also RO's to the opposite side of aga.
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Yeah, 6A is sex for RO's to the right. I have trouble using it aside from using it RO though, any suggestions? I normally stick to 3A/agA for step killers, So the only use I really find for it is for RO's.
 
I actually meant B6, rather than 4B. Not quite sure how I got that mixed up. Also, if you see the run coming and have the reflexes, 6B is generally going to catch them on their 66whatever move. I'm not recommending you only use that, just presenting it as an option.

Regarding 44BB as a follow up to SRSH B, it's much better than you are making it out to be. Against short range characters you can simply follow up with 4B+K A+B to create distance, maybe catching their feet, and it makes many people want to roll after they eat the guaranteed 44BB, meaning you get that free 1AA too. Pulling the entire string off gives you about half a lifebar in damage by just setting up the SRSH B and counting on a side roll.

22B may have bad frames on block, but you can switch between 88B followed by SSH K to try and train them to wait for the K or duck it. You can also strafe left and switch to 22B or strafe right and switch to 88B in order to mess up players more familiar with the stance segue.

I also saw you get the CH SSH A a couple times. I'm not 100% on it, but I think SSH A, SRSH A+B is guarenteed. If nothing else it creates distance from the step forward on SSH A.

You said you wanted criticisms and I can only judge based on what those videos show. You use SRSH K an overwhelming percentage in the last two videos (didn't watch the casual). I saw opportunities to use SRSH B, and noticed about half the times you landed SRSH K it was because you set it up with stance roulette's that better players will interrupt with AA or B.

Take it or leave it, I don't care. It's just my thoughts.
 
Leifyness said:
I actually meant B6, rather than 4B. Not quite sure how I got that mixed up. Also, if you see the run coming and have the reflexes, 6B is generally going to catch them on their 66whatever move. I'm not recommending you only use that, just presenting it as an option.

Regarding 44BB as a follow up to SRSH B, it's much better than you are making it out to be. Against short range characters you can simply follow up with 4B+K A+B to create distance, maybe catching their feet, and it makes many people want to roll after they eat the guaranteed 44BB, meaning you get that free 1AA too. Pulling the entire string off gives you about half a lifebar in damage by just setting up the SRSH B and counting on a side roll.

22B may have bad frames on block, but you can switch between 88B followed by SSH K to try and train them to wait for the K or duck it. You can also strafe left and switch to 22B or strafe right and switch to 88B in order to mess up players more familiar with the stance segue.

I also saw you get the CH SSH A a couple times. I'm not 100% on it, but I think SSH A, SRSH A+B is guarenteed. If nothing else it creates distance from the step forward on SSH A.

You said you wanted criticisms and I can only judge based on what those videos show. You use SRSH K an overwhelming percentage in the last two videos (didn't watch the casual). I saw opportunities to use SRSH B, and noticed about half the times you landed SRSH K it was because you set it up with stance roulette's that better players will interrupt with AA or B.

Take it or leave it, I don't care. It's just my thoughts.
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44BB really probably isn't as bad as i'm making it out to be and I guess I should give it a shot again. The one thing I really like about 1AA is where it puts them. Its right in 33B/22_88B's range.

1AA doesn't tech trap normally. If you hit the first hit on the ground, the 2nd doesn't always tech trap, only after SRSH B and SCH (when you get the bounce).

Both 22B and 88B are both extremely punishable. As soon as someone recognizes what it looks like, its free punishment. I got away with what I could until people finally started adjusting.

If you based it on what you saw in the videos I use SRSH K an overwhelming percentage and it hits 6/7 times. Is that an overwhelming amount?

Kk, also before you talk down about the players I play against, you should realize who the players are, I don't know how long you've been around the scene in Soul Calibur. I'm assuming not too long, because Rushdown isn't much of a joke. (Granted, he wasn't playing well this tourney) But when you talk about better players interrupting stance dancing and whatnot. You're making the assumption that they haven't been punished for trying to interrupt etc.

If anyone had BB or AA'd me, it would've been an adjustment that I would need to make. I obviously didn't make any adjustments against Manta, I was in a complete daze.

If you noticed, I loop my stances outside of Mitsu's range and punished him for trying to interrupt several times. So if I punish him, what compels him to AA or BB after that? Is Stance Dancing no longer viable if I was to play 'someone better'?

I understand what you're trying to say. But, a lot of the arguments you make are not valid. After the gimmick of blocking 22B and getting away with SRSH K, gets figured out, then from that point on they know better. Using 88B isn't gonna change it.

Regarding the SRSH K, you're practically telling me is You hit it 6/7 times, you should probably mix it up because that one time you didn't get SRSH K, you could've done a SRSH B. The opportunities you saw where I could've used SRSH B were where? SRSH B and SRSH can't both hit. So IF I had used SRSH B, I would've hit it 1/7. This is what I don't understand.
 
A few things to keep in mind fellas

44BB is not guaranteed after RSH B unless the opponent techs, otherwise they can tech left after the first hit of 44BB

Leaf- SSH A into RSH A+B.........huh???

botsu- alright from what I saw in the vids you have a good handle on siegs stance game and you can put some serious pressure with the RSH mix ups. My only criticism would be to calm down (I say this because there were a few times where you would miss guaranteed damage after certain moves and try to land an attack even when the opponent has the better frames) and BBB vs mistu? =p

Very nice and scary sieg overall.

Also to whoever was talking about 6A- yes this move is faster than JagA but it is also unsafe, just use it wisely

6B- I rather not use this move much at all since its slow and doesnt track and punishable against certain characters, I do like that it tech crouches but other than that I dont recommend alot of use with it.

About the players interrupting stance- I`m sorry botsu but I have to side with the crowd only for the following reason, you were getting away with murder with all the 88_22Bs, except for the 22 B that was at medium range, then I wouldnt recommend anyone try to punish because of A+B but yea there were a few times Shenrei and Rushdown could have just BB to stop the stance.

and lastly....dont ya just hate a good voldo player =p
 
The BBB was a mistake -_-; I really did not mean for that to come out lol.


I do agree very much about me getting away with murder and I stated above that I knew that they should be punishing me for even going into stance via 22_88B. What I meant about interrupting stance was stance dancing in general. (I.E on wakes, when pressuring) I think that normally (not a blocked 22_88B) dancing in someones face, more often then not isn't going to get interrupted, while 22_88B 3 etc. will.

For example: SRSH B 1AA (this hits and the opponent is grounded) 6B+K, 2B+K, 6B+K puts you right back in their face and the stances track their rolling and most of the time the opponent will stand there and block. They won't AA or BB in fear of getting interrupted. My brother (HajimeOwari) for a good while kept catching me with Yoshi's WS A, until I started dashing in and 3Bing and I'd pick off CH 3B SCH A+B's. Once he stopped getting up attacking, it's back to stance dancing. Thats what I meant about interrupting stance dancing.

And yes, I hate good voldo's =/

I definitely agree with needing to calm down. I do some stupid stuff when I wanna get them off the ring or into a wall and sometimes just for the hell of it :P

thanks kpc =P
 
Kpc, the SSH A into SRSH A+B is on CHit. Unless the RSH A+B can be avoided by just ukemi'ing it looks guarenteed when I test in training. Can you see something different?

Also, thanks for the note on the 44BB follow up, I missed the left tech on second hit..

Botsu, you're right that you were out of range a good deal, but if I was playing Mitsu off your Seig I'd draw back into his quick poke stance (relic, I think) and move forward to duck if you followed up with SCH A+B and punish on whiff.

No, I'm not trying to talk down about the people you are playing, but Rushdown didn't look particularly impressive there and your loss to the Voldo seemed due to you being unfamiliar with his move set. I just think that some people wouldn't let you dance around and would interupt the first sign of 6B+K in a stance roullete with a quick mid kick.

It's not that I'm saying, "You don't use SRSH properly", I just noticed a tendency to use SRSH K a good deal and wasn't sure whether or not that was your general way of playing, or what you decided to use in those matches. I was stating that if, like many other Seig's I see, you always go for the SRSH K, you work on mixing that up.

I tend to use 22_88B to great effect by using it sparingly and mixing in 4_2_8B+K stance shifts with attack followups. 88B is only -3-4 frames on block according to the frame data, so if that's correct it isn't very unsafe.
 
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