DanteSC3
[14] Master
I was kinda hoping for more I guess. But after Kayane dropped her interview I had a feeling there wouldn’t be much more if any news.
Soul Calibur VI: General discussion
- Thread starter SSfox
- Start date
Starringrole
[09] Warrior
I'm really hoping for Amy stabbing someone in the throat grab while they are floored...
Or forcing a rose down their mouth...
sytus
[14] Master
Considering the age of the game now they need to do to this to not only keeps things fresh but to give options to already restricted characters. Even though Taki is a lot better than she was on release I really think she's boring to play in SC6 with how restrictive her options are, they really need to bring back her Exorcism cancel and her neutral combos, she's currently an incomplete character IMO.
To be fair, most of what you have on that list may well be locked in just so that there are bad guys for the heroes to confront. I'm still holding onto hope that Azwel absorbs the power Algol would have consumed or something like that, but for the most part, I think we're all expecting those story beats you listed.
If there's no 17-year time jump, though, or Pyrrha isn't kidnapped, or Patrokolos is taken instead of his sister, or Sophitia lives -- well, those are all huge changes even if those other things you listed off still happen.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
You say that, but if we aren’t going to repeat the motions as has been claimed, then some or all of these events after Nightmare is defeated may or may not happen. Like if Raphael becomes Nightmare straight off, starting up the SoulCalibur V story intervention proper. Then if Zasalamel’s change of heart modified his goals, then he’d do something else, maybe observe Raphmare and Amiola and then it’s him who is responsible for restoring their identities. Azwel may replace Algol entirely, as you presume. So I wouldn’t necessarily say there’s a lock, either, if you’re expecting diverging, truly.
Not having a time skip is well within my expectations, even if all the story beats remain the same. It’s part of the plan to not have the SoulCalibur V stuff be a flop a second time. Modifying the Alexandra family tragedy as Cassandra wants would be a change, yes, if that happens, but if it does, and then also Raphmare already happens, then who takes up Soul Edge next? Azwel? Tira? Yun-seong? Natsu? It would leave a lot to be expected, the more that is different.
Klimat
[13] Hero
I believe you point of view when you look at the plot at hand is too concentrated on the plot itself and therefore too limited. You need to consider outside elements as well to get the full picture.
SoulCalibur is a fighting game francise and in fighting games things like character popularity or uniqueness or certain game mechanics often come first while stories often come second. At least when developers actually know what they are doing that is. Case in point, there was really no need for Talim to be in the game as far as the overall plot goes, yet she still made it in regardless primarily because she did score the first place on the official character popularity poll. That's all it took.
Going back to Cassanda, that character has been often accused of being a Sophitia clone by many which is never a good thing (regardless of how true that accusation was). So the natural answer to this is to make her even more distinct and unique in her own right. In SC6 Cassandra's moves are fully structured around normal physical attacks and three distinct magical powers: lighting, wind and fire. That is now the core of her fighting style and I hightly doubt Project Soul did all ofthat hard work on Cassanda just to throw it all away in the next game for any kind of a silly plot reason. Gameplay comes first, the plot excuse to keep the powers with or without Omega Sword & Owl Shield will follow suit one way or the other.
I believe it's actually a similar thing with Viola. Her return is not being hinted at because someone inside Project Soul really likes SC5 story, not at all. Viola is a popular character with a unique fighting style and therefore she has to return in some way (preferably sooner than later), that is the true reason behind the way Amy's chronicle went. The way Viola's story inclusion explanation is planned goes second, not first, it's a means to an end, not the other way around.
Explaining future Cassandra's unstable state of mind by "hundreds if not thousands of jumps" in time is a giant leap of logic with almost no evidence whatsoever. To me it's much more probable that she was simply trapped inside Astral Chaos for years with Sophitia's corpse besides her unable to speak to another human being, probably constantly assaulted by mindless berserkers, maybe even by Sophitia's berserkers at times to add insult to injury. Not to mention how Astral Chaos is where Soul Edge likes to hang around at times, corrupting everything with its evil presense.
Chances are the time jump we see in Cassandra's chronicle for the future Cassandra was the very first time jump she ever did. The only two actual pieces of evidence against it that I'm aware of are:
1). Soulcalibur: Unbreakable Soul (which I'm not sure how canon that game is, also if it is canon, it only definitely proves one extra time jump, not more, correct me if I'm wrong).
2). The fact that in SC6 the first thing future Cassandra says after emerging from the portal is "Where... Where am I... this time?", but that's a very shaky evidence that can be interpreted in multiple ways. She asks "where" she is after all, not "when" she is. There are many places/arenas you can go inside Astral Chaos, so wondering where she was already makes sense in that way.
I would love a chronicle where she fights malfested inside her castle walls right after The Evil Seed, culminating with a fight against her own father, the king of Wolfkrone, who went mad after the incident and had to be knocked out and locked up for good as the result.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
It’s certainly possible this is true, but I believe the truth is somewhere inbetween. Talim being left out for a second time, much like Zasalamel, I feel like just wasn’t going to happen, since there’s no one who even plays remotely similar to those two. Because they had to include them, if absolutely nothing else, I feel that is what decided on what would have the timeline limitations, and then they designed the rest of the story around that notion.
But about Cassandra, the discussion points prior to her release were expecting a very physical, brutal, ruthless kind of style. Poll literally everyone and I don’t believe anyone would have predicted she would be commending three elements. It certainly does set her apart as unique, but it just doesn’t make much sense, unless they continue to establish her having a greater connection to the gods, which they may well be planning, but that’s quite a significant change in character, and not one I’m sure I’m completely happy with, personally, but it is what it is.
The unique styles getting top preference thing, though, possibly could throw a sword into my Grøh is Z.W.E.I. theory, though, because they would be throwing away one unique style for another to undergo that transformation, though to a lesser extent, you could argue that getting rid of Amy’s uniqueness is equally a problem to transform her into Viola. The best way to handle this, if that was the plan, would have been to make Viola a literal clone of Amy, that would have allowed us to have both, and not make a sacrifice, but we will seemingly have this problem eventually. We’ll see I guess.
My interpretation being what it is has to do with her first line, yes, a feeling of exasperation mixed with confusion and asking where she was... this time. I took that to mean she had several failed jumps or not getting where or when she wanted. It could be wrong, sure, but I only am going by my gut feeling to start with any of this, and without evidence to the contrary, I stick with it. It’s like she kept trying to get to this moment, but kept failing, to where she lost her way, and needed to ask for clarification. I don’t know anything about Unbreakable Soul, so that didn't factor into my feelings at all.
If they did that, though, we’ll run into the Tira dilemma, with perhaps even more of a problem. The events you describe would take place all in 1583, so the only story Hilde would be 11 year old Hilde, and I’m not sure if the world is ready for child Hilde. As far as we know, Hilde doesn’t see much if any action between 1583-1590, and that’s assuming she’s involved with apprehending her father in the first place. I still think it best to hold onto Hilde for a proper introduction in SoulCalibur VII.
Spanky
[13] Hero
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't paid much attention to SCVI's story, but I thought SCVI was explicitly avoiding stating characters' ages. So I don't know that citing Hilde's age as 11 as a deterrent to her being active in SCVI per the timeline checks out... (???)
Also too, "as far as we know" Hilde doesn't see much action during these years, but several other characters allegedly weren't active during these years but we got a glimpse of their previously untold activities anyway.
Edit: personal bias - I just raise these points because I'd really like to see her come back, lol
Edit #2: Klimat be like, "I would love a chronicle where she fights malfested inside her castle walls right after The Evil Seed, culminating with a fight against her own father, the king of Wolfkrone, who went mad after the incident and had to be knocked out and locked up for good as the result."
Bruh, this would be AMAZING af!!!!
Also too, "as far as we know" Hilde doesn't see much action during these years, but several other characters allegedly weren't active during these years but we got a glimpse of their previously untold activities anyway.
Edit: personal bias - I just raise these points because I'd really like to see her come back, lol
Edit #2: Klimat be like, "I would love a chronicle where she fights malfested inside her castle walls right after The Evil Seed, culminating with a fight against her own father, the king of Wolfkrone, who went mad after the incident and had to be knocked out and locked up for good as the result."
Bruh, this would be AMAZING af!!!!
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Ardenwolf
[10] Knight
They can handle the Amy/Viola thing for at least two games by doing a Siggy/Nightmare thing. In one game have Amy for awhile then have her changed into Viola. You now have both styles in that game and it fits the plot, you can even have one of those mental duels between them at some point. Then in the next game it starts with Viola but Amy is eventually freed from the state that created Viola. Bam both characters again. Only issue is any games after that.
Starringrole
[09] Warrior
Well in game I mean, Soulcalibur has never really went out of its way to talk about this its always been in the background for players to look at and such, I wouldn't say its exclusive to SCVI. But its possible that some characters potentially have altered ages, I haven't actually focused on this much.
They could find a way to stick Hilde in regardless. But the stories for these characters like Amy and Talim for example are not their stories. Its more accurately their backstories/prologue.
Talim's actual journey is not depicted in this game, merely her setting out. Amy only just sets out to look for Raphael and what we have are the events that lead to her being stirred into action.
Amy's story for the games has always been her chasing to get to Raphael, in this game conclusion she's only just begun that.
Realistically if they had a bit of fun she could literally just be a non canon bonus character as a way of exposing this game to that sort of thing again, they can even fit in jokes acknowledging that. I prefer Amy by fighting style so much more, but I'd still be playing Viola if they added her and kept her as a bonus at least. They've had the liberty of keeping Siegfrieds Nightmare fighting style exist for so long when it should have stopped long ago, I'm sure they can allow Viola in somehow.
I do hope they drop the big sword Nightmare though, I'd actually like to see souledge follow the change to its wielder rule.
Ardenwolf
[10] Knight
I agree about wishing Nightmare would adopt the weapon of it's Wielder. I also prefer Amy to Viola, but that should be pretty established by now. That said I have no issue with Viola so long as it doesn't require losing Amy... as for the joke non canon thing... ugh, please no, either have a story or don't, no need to goofy shit.
Starringrole
[09] Warrior
I'd ideally hope both stay, which I hope the devs can do. Its wasteful to loose either of them really.
I'm ubbbberr bored with Nightmare's stuff.
I don't feel the non canon thing really hurts to be honest, it doesn't mean she can't have a serious story. Not that she needs one either.
As for the joke side of it all, I meant more as in simply the battle remarks how the characters say stuff to each other, Amy already does that in SC6.
SC6 probably being my favorite take on Amy in general.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
SoulCalibur VI isn’t listing ages, no, but I believe, more than anything else, the reasoning for this is due to the time span of the game lasting for seven years. But the ages are seemingly consistent with SoulCalibur II through SoulCalibur IV, which all take place in the year 1590-1591. Hilde was 18 in SoulCalibur IV, which would make her 11 in 1583.
Everyone’s appearances in SoulCalibur VI are reflexive of what they look like at the latest year, which is fine for characters who have events for the entire time, taking apart some dissonance for having to forgive them for not showing the character grow up though the timeline. But if, and I’m saying if because it’s unexplored territory, the only active story for Hilde before SoulCalibur II starts is when she is 11, having an 18 year old version playing that and only that part of her life would be awkward. They could make new story for sure, if they really wanted, and I don’t dispute that, but for everyone else, barring Cassandra, their activities were documented beforehand, whether or not those events were ever depicted in a game.
It would be weird if she was just flip floppy split personality and just went back and forth at random. Annoying too. But then we get back to that supposition discussion before she was announced where she would use the rapier and then gain the orb for Soul Charge...
Seeing a rapier-using Raphmare would be pretty fantastic!
Edit: Typo fix.
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Starringrole
[09] Warrior
I would have loathed something like that and much preferred just wielding both at the same time.
Which I suppose in the future coming is a possibility due to her roses filling in for some attacks Viola had and some instances of her cutting an attack short not filling in with a rose or the orb.
Like 22/88K.
Even though I'd like to keep the styles separate entirely for gameplay, it could create another Ivy like character.
I loathed the fact SC5 yet again ignored him being a rapier user just to do the same thing again.
Best part is, as soul edge they could have gotten creative with it, it could be a very warped sword resembling a rapier and such to make larger differences between the two.
Ardenwolf
[10] Knight
Who said anything about flip floppy, and please no giving Amy some stupid random orb summoning gimic when soul charged... talked about an absurd compromise that screws both Amy and Viola fans, giving both half the character...
In my examples, you had Amy for half of one game, Viola in the other half, and in the next game, Viola for one half and Amy the other. Hell for all I know, the very re-splitting of Amy and Viola could involve some kind of permanent split creating two different people. Thus ending in both Amy and Viola.
Having a Tira like split personality is not required. The only time I considered the split fight was when first becoming Viola while fighting to stay Amy, and when becoming Amy again, Viola fighting to stay Viola.
Starringrole
[09] Warrior
I'd honestly dread this, I'd rather one of them just remains a bonus for non canon appearances, though Amy would probably remain the staying one by story standards I imagine.
Though I get your idea of having events involving Amy or Viola for different parts of the game.
SC7
Beginning to mid=Amy
Mid to End= Viola
Continuing from Viola
SC8
Beginning to mid=Viola
Mid to end = Amy
Correct? Its a good way to bluntly address the problem for two games which is quite a bit.
Also vote for bipolar Amy 2019.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
Flip floppy was my response to “Well, what after that?”. I understood the point that it would be fine for two games, but I like to believe that we will see SoulCalibur IX and beyond.
HogisGuy
[12] Conqueror
A whole week of Cassandras online and this is how i feel like.
Klimat
[13] Hero
Trying to look at those points from the developer's perspective.
- Siegfried becoming Nightmare again will happen. It's a plot point that works and doesn't need any fixing, it also happens early in SC2 timeline way before it can be stopped by any character with retconning powers. It also has been already hinted at at the end of Siegfried's chronicle.
- Nightmare vs. Raphale also works and is hinted at as well as Amy's involvement.
- Here is where things might go the other direction. Night Terror is an obscure secret boss one can fight against by following a very specific path in Tales of Souls in SC3 while not losing a single match all the way through the story, it's safe to say 99% of people who played SC3 never fought Night Terror, the majority of people who are aware of him either read an article on a fan wiki, either watched a YouTube video, therefore Night Terror is not near as iconic as Inferno (and also not near as cool looking). On top of that, his fighting style is merely an overpowered version of Nightmare and has no value of it's own. Night Terror is hightly expendable. He also is connected to Zasalamel's shenanigans and we know Zas is one of two characters with actual retconning powers, which all lead me to believe Night Terror will not be revisited in the new canon in any serious way. We might get a super secret epilogue Libra of Souls fight with Nightmare/Inferno wearing a unique Night Terror costume skin if we are lucky, but Night Terror will not be a culmination to a main story of any game and won't be recognized in any major way. Instead I believe we will get something more personal and interesting to fill that gap, probably Zas using people and swords as pawns on one side of the divide with Azwel doing the same thing on the other side, then finally walking out of the shadows and establishing himself as a force to reckon with to everyone involved.
- Algol is a unique character with fans of his own, so yes, he is definitely returning, but most probably under slightly different story circumstances.
- Algol was never actually defeated in the old canon. He fought Mitsurugi to a stalemate only to be sucked into Astral Chaos for no fault of his own (and due to Soul Edge being destroyed by someone else somewhere else). That might change in the new canon. Also in the old canon Algol has only been sucked into Astral Chaos to yet again emerge from it in SC5 anyway, so this time they might skip the whole Astral Chaos part and just keep Algol around as one of the constant threats.
Crash X
[14] Master
I’ve only seen four of them lol.