DanteSC3
[14] Master
Rock, easily. 
Soul Calibur VI: General discussion
- Thread starter SSfox
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Crash X
[14] Master
You do realize that the only time something like this escalates into a fight is only when YOU decide to involve yourself into these debates right? If you like sex appeal in a fighting game, then that’s fine. But you need to respect others opinions towards stuff like this and come to terms with a disagreement. It’s the same thing with you about the DLC speculation situation. Here, it seems like people are fine with the sex appeal in Soul Calibur (including @DanteSC3), but at the same time know when a company can go a little overboard with said sex appeal. In other words, they understand when a series needs it’s moderation. You like the sex appeal and we get that. But have some consideration for others on here who aren’t as big on the sex appeal side of the series as you are and know when it’s best to agree to disagree and move on, instead of just being hyper confrontational and trying to get the last word in. People aren’t dogging you over your preferences, so don’t dog others over theirs. Have a nice day/nyte.
LisaK
[14] Master
the low budget is the main villain..
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure everybody here agrees with that: if nothing else, anyone working as a concept artist for a major company gets a huge amount of direction as to the generalities of the design before they even put stylus to tablet, and a majority are going to have to draw some scantily clad women in their careers if they want to make their bones in this industry.
But I think there's been some confusion here, resulting from the typical outcome of message board telephone: no one was saying that no female artist ever created a salacious design. Or even that, left to their own devices, some of them might not create such designs on their own. The topic came up because someone floated the theory that Hilde's design could be a woman's effort at sexual expression and that it would be repressive not to embrace it. But in order for that idea to fly, at a minimum we would need to know that the artist was female, and it was pointed out that lacking express knowledge of such a state of affairs, its more likely that it was not, as a simple statistical matter.
You do realize that if you constantly lean into terms like "woke", "SJW", "PC", and "triggered" that you just hurt your own argument, since at this point most people are conditioned (particularly in the context of the internet) to instantly think "Oh he's a douchebag." and discount whatever else you are saying--because these terms are essentially little more than ad hominems, the weakest form of argumentation? And not just any ad hominems, but the ones we are quickly coming to associate with a particularly caustic and close-minded kind of reactionary thinking.
And here we go with the strawman arguments...
Ah right, I forgot about the Physical Law of Two Design Choices: it's either all strippers whose breasts inflate at least a cup between any two entries, or else peasants in puffy livery. Nothing in between or altogether different from either of those options...
If you printed out every time Nyte has said "And almost everyone agrees with me, just not here." as a hail mary effort to win an argument on these forums, the printout could stretch to the moon and back. Well, if you printed in 10 point font and used both sides, anyway.
Seriously. If you look at DO6 and then think it is the product of "PC culture", you've lost any claim to any kind of perspective on the topic.
Without engaging in the semantic debate about whether this kind of topic is best defined as "politics" (I think that's a pretty heavy-handed and over-the-top label for what is essentially a reasonable discussion about taste and consumerism), I think that's kind of narrow-minded and self-centered take on the subject: whether you like it or not, games are art, and it is in the nature of art to produce discussion. These criticisms may not mean much to you, but that doesn't default them to being undue or pointless. Clearly they matter a great deal for some people, and not just those of the class of person who is looking to be offended--a group I will grant you exists out there in significant numbers today but who cannot be made the litmus test representatives for everyone who might want to talk about gender implications (or any other kind of potential implicit bias) in game design.
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Nyte
Fu-ma's Shadow
Sorry, I just like that SC sticks to its guns and I don’t like anyone suggesting otherwise.
Can we move on?
Can we move on?
sytus
[14] Master
Rock, easily.
I thought you only liked cute pictures of Siegfried, not hairy burly men like Rock.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
Except the majority of the series toes the line of being relatively reasonable with regards to its sex appeal. SoulCalibur IV and SoulCalibur VI are outliers that go against the grain of the rest of the games. There was a gradual curve leading up to SoulCalibur IV after SoulCalibur II, but SoulCalibur III had a degree of tastefulness to its clothes, despite some body proportions being augmented. Or at the very least, made up with its superior 2p costumes for those who went over the line. SoulCalibur V pared back to SoulCalibur II-esque times, and then SoulCalibur VI turned back to SoulCalibur IV as if to distance itself from SoulCalibur V. I know you'll probably say yes, good, everything less and less like SoulCalibur V is great, but SoulCalibur V's plea for modesty was appreciated.
Nah, I'm equal opportunity to all shapes/sizes. Rock's just adorable, though, such a pure being, and being protected by his thighs would be a comfort zone.
artard4321
[12] Conqueror
Rock, easily.
Geez guys, y'all lost me with your choices. The answer to this one isn't subjective or opinionated. Clearly this majestic creature objectively and factually has the best thighs./
/
sytus
[14] Master
Who's an artist here, need to have DanteSC3 getting head squeezed by Rock's thighs. XD
Nyte
Fu-ma's Shadow
Appreciated... by you? Again, not acknowledging you’re a minority. You realize everything you like about SCV and want so desperately to return to is because of Daisha Odashima, who left Project Soul in 2013? Time to move on. Fuck SCV.
Can we talk about something else now?
LisaK
[14] Master
Crash X
[14] Master
You...speak my language. IT’S A BLESSING FROM LORD VERRCI HIMSELF!
Calm down already will ya? Show some self control here on a public forum.
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Nyte
Fu-ma's Shadow
Also when I'm talking about "elsewhere", I'm referring to places like the SC Reddit. I hang around there and they're pretty cool with the female designs being sexy. Complaints there tend to get drown out by the heaps of praise in general. No one has ever said "I'd buy SC if they took all the boobs out", not that I imagine.
Anyways, I just got mad because I'm tired of people like Dante spreading anti-sexy bullshit around and praising the worst game in the series (SCV duh), when it's something that needed to be saved from. Then, I'm tired of Dante for entirely different reasons. I wouldn't expect PS to go "there's too much fanservice", because only Daishi ever thought that, and he's gone. Okubo and the team didn't take away fanservice when several big websites complained about it to him, I doubt they will because some forum people are indirectly compared to the sea of people who praise him and the team as a whole.
Anyways, I just got mad because I'm tired of people like Dante spreading anti-sexy bullshit around and praising the worst game in the series (SCV duh), when it's something that needed to be saved from. Then, I'm tired of Dante for entirely different reasons. I wouldn't expect PS to go "there's too much fanservice", because only Daishi ever thought that, and he's gone. Okubo and the team didn't take away fanservice when several big websites complained about it to him, I doubt they will because some forum people are indirectly compared to the sea of people who praise him and the team as a whole.
RyujiSakamoto
Premium Member
I don't hate fanservice. I do dislike how anime cringe the series has become. But that's neither here nor there...
LisaK
[14] Master
sytus
[14] Master
I don't take Dante as being anti sexy just anti excessive. Besides we're missing the 2P costumes that would have brought the conservative designs with them so don't be hard on someone if they're frustrated that they didn't get designs that they wanted that have been a staple with other past games.
DanteSC3
[14] Master
@Nyte: You're taking it to the other extreme, though. No one, not even myself, is asking for no boobs or literally head to toe covering. If you can't see the vast different design-wise between SoulCalibur IV and SoulCalibur VI when compared to the rest of the series, then I can't help you, but there is a marked difference, and it's not necessary to the success of the franchise, in my opinion of course, for them to go to such lengths. They didn't need it up through SoulCalibur III, and they don't need it now.
Nyte
Fu-ma's Shadow
The best you can expect is the return of 2P costumes. They’re not scaling it back, because they would’ve done it already after the websites gave them shit and tried to pressure them to censor themselves. They didn’t.
“Not necessary”? There are many things about the series that “aren’t necessary” that you don’t seem to have a problem with. Funny.
Also, not sure if you noticed, but every game is sexier than the last barring the black sheep SCV. And it’s hardly alone on that looking at Street Fighter V.
I highly doubt this is going to be a series that will preach about feminism anytime soon. Characters can be strong, well-made AND sexy, which might surprise you.
artard4321
[12] Conqueror
The series has always been styled in anime though. The difference is how design in anime evolved. The '90s had a simpler and more traditional style as you can see from titles such as Rurouni Kenshin while the style during the '10s are more complex and edgier style that can be a little too much as seen in isekai anime.
Samurai Shodown maintains the simpler anime designs while titles such as BlazBlue and other characters seen in Cross Tag Battle has that more modern edgy anime approach.
My main problem with some of the newer designs is that they stand out too much and the roster as a whole look aesthetically inconsistent. (Also their weapons are a bit over the top).
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WuHT
Premium Moderator
Ok we're making some progress here.
If you open with this you could have avoided a lot of less-than-positive feedback.
This next part is just for Rusted Blade, since its not soul calibur specific.
Who seriously goes around saying i) "this was almost certainly designed by a man" and ii) "almost certain that no woman had any input on this", but the next day asks posters to back off because they never were quoted to claim to know with specificity how the design actually came about. Maybe if you were less absolute in your statements you wouldn't come off as someone who had direct knowledge.
You're not new around here, so why are you surprised when people put the onus on you to support your assertions, especially considering how extreme they are?
It really boils down to those 2 statement you made and how you jumped to that conclusion rather than the source data you extrapolated your thinking from.
Extrapolating data is actually ok (whether from the IGDA survey or broad software developer industry demographic breakdowns from the BLS,) to at least say “statistically male developers more likely had a greater input on hilde’s character design”. No one would bat an eye because that would be a reasonable conclusion.
However, your posts states in no uncertain terms that you are confident that less than one woman had any input on Hilde’s design. If you’re prone to making gross exaggerations, why are you surprised when people challenge you ?
At least now we’re at the point where you admit you had no idea what was going on yet still felt confident enough to declare with overwhelming certainty that zero women had any input.
You're not new around here, so why are you surprised when people put the onus on you to support your assertions, especially considering how extreme they are?
It really boils down to those 2 statement you made and how you jumped to that conclusion rather than the source data you extrapolated your thinking from.
Extrapolating data is actually ok (whether from the IGDA survey or broad software developer industry demographic breakdowns from the BLS,) to at least say “statistically male developers more likely had a greater input on hilde’s character design”. No one would bat an eye because that would be a reasonable conclusion.
However, your posts states in no uncertain terms that you are confident that less than one woman had any input on Hilde’s design. If you’re prone to making gross exaggerations, why are you surprised when people challenge you ?
At least now we’re at the point where you admit you had no idea what was going on yet still felt confident enough to declare with overwhelming certainty that zero women had any input.
https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki...l_Calibur_New_Legends_Of_Project_Soul_032.JPG
Look at the designer’s comments translated on the bottom left. This is an actual woman designer on the project soul team that had input on character design! Not only did she draft Natsu’s design, she even made comments alluding to titties (o no I hope the activists don't try to get soul calibur cancelled). There were at least 2 women designers interviewed, and they had specific quotes about their contributions. I think this should suffice as evidence that there was at least one women input on character design over at Project Soul, and certainly I’d put more weight on it than some broad US-specific “software designer” industry breakdown of gender.
I suppose you could argue that this isn't evidence that a woman had any input on SC6 Hilde specifically, but the balance of probabilities would suggest the design process to be historically similar.
Oof I'm not even going to touch this lol. Please don't get all political here.
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