Yoshimitsu Web Theater.

Whats that pokes you say ? lol Never thought of that one ;) Like i said yoshi has like 20 safe good pokes that lead into other set ups... " I say again " " Poke her to death " I got a docs appt so I duno if i'll be back today , but maybe those vids will be up soon.... ( patiently waits )
 
@ LP

Up close setsuka has BB, 6K, 214BB which evades MCF, JF umbrella, 4A and step, thats enough to handle everything Yoshi has there.

I dont care if my Umbrellas get punished with 3B since i heavily outdamage Yoshimitsu. So after a while Yoshi will be in a passive mode, scared to attack because of Umbrella etc... A stepped MCF is 90 DMG for setsuka. And of course most of the time i'll try to go to midrange again by backdashing. FC 3K can be punished for 75 Damage. DGF K the same. FC 3A+B is free for both lows. This matchup indeed could be 7:3. I dont even punish his lows with FC3A+B and still its enough. Setsuka dominates him on long range, mid range and even close range is risky for Yoshi because of Setsukas absurd damage output.

7:3, i stick to it :)
 
docvizzo said:
@ LP

Up close setsuka has BB, 6K, 214BB which evades MCF, JF umbrella, 4A and step, thats enough to handle everything Yoshi has there.

I dont care if my Umbrellas get punished with 3B since i heavily outdamage Yoshimitsu. So after a while Yoshi will be in a passive mode, scared to attack because of Umbrella etc... A stepped MCF is 90 DMG for setsuka. And of course most of the time i'll try to go to midrange again by backdashing. FC 3K can be punished for 75 Damage. DGF K the same. FC 3A+B is free for both lows. This matchup indeed could be 7:3. I dont even punish his lows with FC3A+B and still its enough. Setsuka dominates him on long range, mid range and even close range is risky for Yoshi because of Setsukas absurd damage output.

7:3, i stick to it :)
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The key in this match up is space, it´s harder to fight against chars like Sets and X, wich can space Yoshi way better than Ivy or Raph, it´s an uphill match for Yoshi, no doubt about it, but I´ve been learning this match up lately, and belive me, you will not spam Umbrella on Yoshi, fire will scare anyone, is more a mental thing, lol, I don´t punish umbrella with 3B, I punish it with 4K(B), and I agree wit you doc, iMCF is not that great against Sets, but there are others options, I don´t mind fighting her at any distance, 33B is not to be feared by Yoshi, at mid distance 1BB_1A:A:A mixups, are a real pain in the ass and the best tool for Sets, that´s tha main issue, when I play really good Sets player, is basically a batlle of 1BB and Yoshi´s 33B, anyway, it´s up to the players and if you want to be strict, is 6-4 to Sets.
 
lolo said:
Oh, you forgot me, i challenge everyone to do more iMCF's in a minute, lol.
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challenge accepted! Also I challenge you to a "no-sliding" iMCFs challenge :)

I like your post concerning Setsuka, it's the one that makes more sense until now IMO. Range is definitely the problem against her and I agree, I now have more trouble against her than Ivy. Thing is, I don't know what range to fight at. At long range, Sets' 33B (the tracking doc-version) is annoying as hell, so I usually prefer to fight a little closer. But then again, she can just backdash as much as she wants with 4A, yoshi can't do much against it, or can he? FC 3_1K seems to be the only viable option for me (sometimes 4A will even catch FC 3K since it's not TC), do you have any advice? Usually I just wait for him to stop abusing 4A and take my distance, but then I'm back on Sets' 33B range… Don't know what to do. What I could improve is react to 1B:B and FC3B:B to GI on reaction but I can't do it consistently for now. Any vids of you against a good setsuka?

By the way thanks, never tried to punish umbrella with 4K although I wonder if 3B,33B,[B+K] is better for wake-up game? Any idea what the damage difference is?

Anyway, I'm gonna encode the vids, hope to post them soon.
 
Rookie ramble time.

I will agree on this: X and Sets are big trouble for Yoshi.

A good Sets will give Yoshi a hard time. You all pretty much covered it. The only thing I can do is space and punish patiently. But, eventually I could easily get walled. She hits a bit faster which scares Pocky Yoshi. So far, 33B and 4K help a bit. 1 at range, also sometimes help me. Honestly, I need more practice against Sets. Any Sets out there willing to give Pocky Yoshi more experience?



X:
That playful slice(25B I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.) X does, is really good on Yoshi. I eat those a lot xp. She'll step then proceed to that. I also envy X's step. Anyways, what moves that beat out 25B?



 
Furzy said:
challenge accepted! Also I challenge you to a "no-sliding" iMCFs challenge :)

I like your post concerning Setsuka, it's the one that makes more sense until now IMO. Range is definitely the problem against her and I agree, I now have more trouble against her than Ivy. Thing is, I don't know what range to fight at. At long range, Sets' 33B (the tracking doc-version) is annoying as hell, so I usually prefer to fight a little closer. But then again, she can just backdash as much as she wants with 4A, yoshi can't do much against it, or can he? FC 3_1K seems to be the only viable option for me (sometimes 4A will even catch FC 3K since it's not TC), do you have any advice? Usually I just wait for him to stop abusing 4A and take my distance, but then I'm back on Sets' 33B range… Don't know what to do. What I could improve is react to 1B:B and FC3B:B to GI on reaction but I can't do it consistently for now. Any vids of you against a good setsuka?

By the way thanks, never tried to punish umbrella with 4K although I wonder if 3B,33B,[B+K] is better for wake-up game? Any idea what the damage difference is?

Anyway, I'm gonna encode the vids, hope to post them soon.
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I will try to record the video of iMCF, lol...
And as for Sets, against Sets some useful moves are 2B, 1B, 3K, BB, 6A, 66B+K, 8A+B2, 8_9K... Im lazy to list the purpose of each one, but, some of the uses are, 2B in mid range is good to interrupt Set's 214* and 4A, it's safe and on hit it leads to FC3K mixups...
For some high risk-reward situation, 8A+B2... For anticipation of moves like 4A, as well you can use 9B+K to jump over 4A and stomp her face.
3K, is like 2A but with more range and usually tracks well enough.
BB, if she is stepping G to get B+K or 1BB, the second B will track her, is like el paso de la muerte, is risky, but works most of the time.

Anywya, at the end you are going to face the player not the char per se, so you have to adopt the right strategy, is something that everyone knows, if you are facing an agressive player, iMCF will teach a lesson, steppers 6A, AA, grabs, etc, sleepers go try to pressure on SG, etc.
 
I don't have much trouble against X although I haven't played Kayane in a looong time… I played Kalas at EBO this summer, beat him. Against her I usually play the distance since she doesn't really have a good mid-range game. Try to bait her 25B and whiff punish it with 4K, it usually works well :) Other than that, take your distance and abuse step 33B or 6K. 214A can be pretty good too when you expect a throw or her annoying AA (even better if you step before it). Careful of 44B and if blocked, punish properly.
 
NamuSkull said:
Rookie ramble time.

I will agree on this: X and Sets are big trouble for Yoshi.

A good Sets will give Yoshi a hard time. You all pretty much covered it. The only thing I can do is space and punish patiently. But, eventually I could easily get walled. She hits a bit faster which scares Pocky Yoshi. So far, 33B and 4K help a bit. 1 at range, also sometimes help me. Honestly, I need more practice against Sets. Any Sets out there willing to give Pocky Yoshi more experience?

Furzy, Kayane is a good X player, but far away from Mick for example, he is nothing like Kayane, but anyway, everyone speaks according to their personal exp.


X:
That playful slice(25B I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.) X does, is really good on Yoshi. I eat those a lot xp. She'll step then proceed to that. I also envy X's step. Anyways, what moves that beat out 25B?



Click to expand...



Pocky Yoshi, X is indeed awesome against Yoshi, I´ve been playing with Mick a lot and discovering some nice stuff... Basically I like to provoque situations where I can use 8A+B2, so I try to anticipate 44B, 25B, 44AA, 3A, 1A, etc... Even 2K, lol.
 
lolo said:
I will try to record the video of iMCF, lol...
And as for Sets, against Sets some useful moves are 2B, 1B, 3K, BB, 6A, 66B+K, 8A+B2, 8_9K... Im lazy to list the purpose of each one, but, some of the uses are, 2B in mid range is good to interrupt Set's 214* and 4A, it's safe and on hit it leads to FC3K mixups...
For some high risk-reward situation, 8A+B2... For anticipation of moves like 4A, as well you can use 9B+K to jump over 4A and stomp her face.
3K, is like 2A but with more range and usually tracks well enough.
BB, if she is stepping G to get B+K or 1BB, the second B will track her, is like el paso de la muerte, is risky, but works most of the time.

Anywya, at the end you are going to face the player not the char per se, so you have to adopt the right strategy, is something that everyone knows, if you are facing an agressive player, iMCF will teach a lesson, steppers 6A, AA, grabs, etc, sleepers go try to pressure on SG, etc.
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Oooh, now that's some real advice! Never thought of 9B+K to stop 4A abuse! Didn't think of 2B either as a good, fast TC. Those could definitely be some nice additions, thanks!

@Docvizzo: We have to play :p Tomorrow?
 
Haha so you think 2B is gonna safe you from getting owned? :) Lol, We both know how its gonna end :) And yeah i guess tomorrow sounds fine! Be prepared for docsuka!
 
Read through this stuff later. Like I said, I'm basing all my stuff off of theory fighting. Though I beat all the Yoshi players at FSAK outside of Hajime (got caught by a thousand dickpunches), I'm going to say they knew as much about Sets as I know about Yoshi.

Though I did catch something. Though it may be a matter of preference because my people back home used to GI 1B:B and FC 3B:B, have you tried using Sets WR B from outside/at 1B:B's tip range, Doc? Though it doesn't get the NH damage of 1B:B, it has more range, just as much pushback on block, and, like with all of her FC attacks out of stance, you can delay it until the end of stance, furthering the TC frames and causing it to track to her right (and, also, since she already moves back for stance, the delay give her more room to cause whiffs.)

Just honestly posting my Sets bit here because no one ever talks about her in her SA. Like I said, most of my stuff is theory, though I do know know that whatever that little Yoshi's little shark attack starter is and his BB are two of his best tools for closing distance with Sets. His FC 3K is nice too if you can get the Sets to block from that range and they can't see it.

Other than that, Lolo, if you're being spaced correctly by the Sets player, almost none of the stuff you listed works. It may be the different playstyles, though, that have us all differing on opinion. Taking a nap now, though, as I haven't slept since yesterday morning, but I'll respond more with my own beliefs once I wake up.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking, Doc. =P Your 2B will preemptively beat 4A, but, except in close range, where the mixups of CH 2B are good, I think that shark attack thing is way better. Outside of that, Sets is pushed pretty far back.

And, with the little double stop, unless she does something with very little disadvantage, 4A will hit Yoshi for CH (airborne) or trade with him (still airborne, but Sets ends up on the ground. Not only that, but it whiffs against proper spacing and Sets can step both that and your 2B (if you're using that as a supplemental option) and punish. I would think his 3K would help out a bit here, though. Still, more in-depth analysis after wakeup.
 
lolo said:
Pocky Yoshi, X is indeed awesome against Yoshi, I´ve been playing with Mick a lot and discovering some nice stuff... Basically I like to provoque situations where I can use 8A+B2, so I try to anticipate 44B, 25B, 44AA, 3A, 1A, etc... Even 2K, lol.
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Goodness, those X pokes are the usual things that get me cringing lol. Especially that amazing 2K X has.
It can go into many mix-ups. But luckily, it feels like a solid match-up to me. Maybe I should pick up X.
 
Yes sometimes he tries to GI 1BB or FC3BB, but of course i can bait and punish, too. All those LCDs have a bit of lag, really not easy to do that on reaction, so in the end i benefit from it :) I can still RE GI him when he succeeds, but when i bait him he eats 1BB...btw some nice Perfect GI action in those vids....

And yes sometimes of course i use WRB, i dont know if that much in the vids. I generally use what i need to win, if spamming 33B all day works im not gonna switch strats :P
 
Can't GI 1B:B on reaction yet, need Ring's eyes and reaction (or maybe another TV?) :p

Finished encoding the vids, I'll upload them tomorrow at work. Expect them in about 10 hours.
 
docvizzo said:
Yes sometimes he tries to GI 1BB or FC3BB, but of course i can bait and punish, too. All those LCDs have a bit of lag, really not easy to do that on reaction, so in the end i benefit from it :) I can still RE GI him when he succeeds, but when i bait him he eats 1BB...btw some nice Perfect GI action in those vids....

And yes sometimes of course i use WRB, i dont know if that much in the vids. I generally use what i need to win, if spamming 33B all day works im not gonna switch strats :P
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Amen, playing on those LCDs can be worst than playing online for me... Online I don´t try to GI, but in LCDs I try so I get hit by many CHs.
Even tough, I don´t think you can react to the second B, so is not the safest thing to try to GI, and I can react if they do 1B, maybe not to punish, but to take chance of the adv.
 
You can definitely react to the second B, I saw Ring have a nearly 100% success rate against doc.
 
Damn...two pages this quickly guys? O.o I'll read through everything a bit later and reply.

Here's my take on it. Let's just say that I see the match-up as 6:4 Yoshi.

Setsuka doesn't have the most spectacular lows, so there's no reason to duck out of fear. She has 1A:A:A, 2A+B, and 11A. If you spend enough time against Setsuka, 2A+B and 11A should be easy enough to spot. 1A:A:A has a slight pause before it comes out. It's not something people can block on reaction 100% of the time, but it's instant either. The damage on any of these lows is hardly threatening.

Just a couple tips:

Throws aren't a big threat. Sets players would rather get a B throw than an A throw.
214A evades and hits against bA (weird, right?), 33B, 1B:B, 66A, WS B.
214A will evade 4A.
You can step or 8WR 1B:B, 33B, WS B, 2A+B, and a number of other moves to her right.
6B beats an anticipated 4A every time.
 
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