Character Matchup Tier Project

hotnikklez: Videos? Not needed, let's just say I can't get the job done with Maxi, period. I'll admit that maybe I don't have the proper thinking or strategy needed to win with him....that's why I'd like other people to show me how it's done. Once again, i'm not being sarcastic or anything, I really wanna see what you need to do to play Maxi effectively against characters like Amy and Cervantes. I don't wanna read a bunch of BS though, so don't waste your time posting a response to this....I wanna SEE action....like I said, Evo or Nats...wherever. Someone show me how Maxi is supposed to be played.
 
Saitoh: I think I've just seen vids you were talking about on youtube. Well, your Asta is good as usual, but you missed out on way too many wakeup opportunities and got interrupted (where you have plenty of uninterruptible options). And you didnt even try to keep him away, spamming bullrush instead. After blocking MST 6 just AB in return, mits can only stand there or shift into mst to not get hit.
After bullrush gets blocked GI or step is a very good option. I wish somebody did so much 66[K] vs me though... And Mitsu player took giant risks in just about every vid. Given the fact you probably play each other a lot (its same team, is it?) its not really impressive.
Mistu player shouldnt do FC 1BB instead do FC 1B 66A+B_~G btw if enemy siderolls its free uninteruptible BT mixup.

I'll post detailed info later if you are interested.
 
KrayzieCD said:
I'll admit that maybe I don't have the proper thinking or strategy needed to win with him....that's why I'd like other people to show me how it's done. Once again, i'm not being sarcastic or anything,
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I have a hard time believing that, given your reputation, hence the reason i would've liked to see vids at least...I don't see what's the big deal....anyway...

mikosu, u gonna do Tira or should I? She's very hard to place matchups, her weaknesses is kinda overall than character specific. She just doesn't do damage it seems unless she can land CH combos or GS 3B. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
 
Kilik Character Matchups!

Algol: 6/4
Amy: 5/5
Appr: 6/4
Asta: 5/5
Cass: 6/4
Cerv: 6/4
Hilde:4/6
Ivy: 4/6
Kilik: lol I wonder?
Liz: 6/4
Maxi: 7/3
Mina: 6/4
Mitsu: 6/4
Night:5/5
Raph: 6/4
Rock: 6/4
Sets: 5/5
Sieg: 6/4
Soph: 5/5
Taki: 7/3 Actually 6.5/3.5
Talim: 6/4
Tira: ...??
Vader: 6/4
Voldo: 5/5
Xiang: 5/5 I still think this could be 4.5/5.5
Yoda: 7/3
Yoshi: 6/4
Yun: 6/4
Zas: ...??

Hilde Character Matchups! Revision needed

Algol: 6/4
Amy: 6/4
Apprentice: 7/3
Asta: 5/5
Cass: 7/3
Cerv: 7/3
Hilde: hmmm this one is difficult!
Ivy: 6/4
Kilik: 6/4
Liz: 7/3
Maxi: 5/5
Mina: 7/3
Mitsu: 7/3
Night: 7/3
Raph: 7/3
Rock: 6/4
Sets: 6/4
Sieg: 7/3
Soph: 6/4
Taki: 7/3
Talim: 7/3
Tira: ...??
Vader: 6/4
Voldo: 4/6
Xiang: 7/3
Yoda: 3/7
Yoshi: 7/3
Yun: 7/3
Zas: ...??
 
Something-Unique said:
Kilik Character Matchups!
Yoshi: 6|4
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I would put Kilik v. Yoshi at 5/5 at least. If used correctly, stomp and 9A+B can nullify Kilik's range and many of his major tools. Both have to take some risks in this match-up.

I'll have to test some new stuff I've developed against Ceirnian more to give my opinion on Hilde v. Yoshi. 7/3 seems a bit much, but I'm not ready to say 6/4. Yoshi has some answers that may make this matchup slightly less of a beating.
 
hotnikkelz said:
mikosu, u gonna do Tira or should I? She's very hard to place matchups, her weaknesses is kinda overall than character specific. She just doesn't do damage it seems unless she can land CH combos or GS 3B. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
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Since you're a respected, experienced player your opinion holds more weight than mine. I'm doing most of my Tira matchup discussion in her SA. The characters I use are best if you have solid basics and great anticipation so it's hard to rate them. ATM I will say Tira vs Hilde seems 5:5. Kilik spaces her well for sure but she has good tools for him up close. I'll research that matchup.

Thing about Tira damage is the big stuff isn't consistent. She has the POTENTIAL to punish -12 moves for 64 damage. She has the POTENTIAL to punish -18 moves and step whiff punish for 82-96 damage. You can take the discussion lead Johnny mon. Post up in her SA sir. I'd like to keep her discussion there.

EDIT: Lack of consistency is in JS, not GS btw.
 
Something-Unique said:
Hilde Character Matchups! Revision needed

Algol: 6/4
Amy: 6/4
Apprentice: 6/4?
Asta: 5/5
Cass: 6/4?
Cerv: 6/4
Hilde: hmmm this one is difficult!
Ivy: 6/4
Kilik: 6/4
Liz: 6/4
Maxi: 6/4 Figure this is fair, I don't think she's the best person to deal with his stuff but there's no doubt she has advantage.
Mina: 7/3
Mitsu: 6/4
Night: 7/3
Raph: 6/4?
Rock: 6/4
Sets: 6/4
Sieg: 6/4
Soph: 5/5?
Taki: 6/4
Talim: 7/3? no idea, not changing this
Tira: ...??
Vader: 5/5
Voldo: 5/5? maybe even 6/4 hilde
Xiang: 6/4?
Yoda: 6/4
Yoshi: 6/4
Yun: 7/3 I personally feel this one should stay the same
Zas: ...??
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Fixed, at least partially. I'm probably being too nice on some of the matchups, and some of them I didn't change because I don't feel I know enough about it to really say (as of now).
 
Can someone produce a list for Ivy? I hear she just completely dominates certain matchups...and I know vs SOLID Ivy's my Raphael can't do shit...but I want a whole list to see which matchups this bitch just owns o_o....really curious.

Ruiner
 
I'm just a little curious as to why Hilde vs Sophie is rated 5/5?

Hilde doesn't really have anything that unsafe, and step-wise Sophie is fairly weak to one side. Sophie doesn't have any really scary lows either, so she's going to be relying on throw mix ups for the most part but her command throw is 66A+G, so Hilde gets to keep her doom combo charge for the most part. Also, at mid-long range, which is where Hilde will want to be for this match up, all of Sophie's best moves tend to be horizontals, which is just asking for step into doom combo. I'll concede that Sophie might give Hilde some trouble at close range, but enough to make it 5/5? I'm not sure.

All that aside, I'll say right off the bat that I haven't really played versus a great Sophie with Hilde so if I'm wrong, well, yeah, I'm wrong.
 
I put a question mark because I haven't explored the matchup enough to rate it. I need to play Alex more before I end up making it a 6/4. Sophie has some annoying ass tools to deal with, but yeah the matchup is probably a 6/4. The risk/reward is just way too far in Hilde's favor for me to really think it's a 5/5 though.
 
Chai Xianghua matchups:
? = I don't know for sure but it'd probably like that
Algol: 6/4?
Amy: 5/5
Appr: 5/5?
Asta: 5/5
Cass: 6/4
Cerv: 5/5
Hilde:6/4?
Ivy: 6/4?
Kilik: 6/4 or 5/5 i can't make up my mind.
Liz: 5/5?
Maxi: 6/4?
Mina: 6/4
Mitsu: 5/5
Night:6/4?
Raph: 6/4
Rock: 6/4
Sets: 4/6?
Sieg: 5/5 or 4/6.. can't make up my mind either
Soph: 4/6
Taki: 6/4 or 5/5
Talim: 6/4
Tira: I HAVE NO IDEA
Vader: no idea either
Voldo: 6/4?
Xiang: 5/5
Yoda: ??????????????
Yoshi: 6/4
Yun: 6/4
Zas: 5/5??

Ask me for details if you wanna :)
 
Good to have some more opinions. Although some of them seems pretty doubtfull (Lol @ Something Unique for Hilde).

Shen Yuan : can you detail X vs Zas please? Can't believe it's not in X's favor.
Some of them seems very surprising for me but I am in no way a X expert... I only know X vs Setsu which is 4/6 you're right, I cleared my doubts about that.
 
mina has an advantage against rock.

And Hilde definately has an advantage on Soph. Any attempt at stab can be punished (C3A ftw). And since the most unsafe thing Hilde might try, would probably be 1KK. Soph can be easily stepped to one side. And yeah, LG said most of the other stuff anyway.
 
Rock doesn't have a very good range game. And Mina is FASTER than rock at close range with spacing tools.... Personally I can't find a way to get in on LG's Mina.
 
Belial said:
Saitoh: I think I've just seen vids you were talking about on youtube. Well, your Asta is good as usual, but you missed out on way too many wakeup opportunities and got interrupted (where you have plenty of uninterruptible options). And you didnt even try to keep him away, spamming bullrush instead. After blocking MST 6 just AB in return, mits can only stand there or shift into mst to not get hit.
After bullrush gets blocked GI or step is a very good option. I wish somebody did so much 66[K] vs me though... And Mitsu player took giant risks in just about every vid. Given the fact you probably play each other a lot (its same team, is it?) its not really impressive.
Mistu player shouldnt do FC 1BB instead do FC 1B 66A+B_~G btw if enemy siderolls its free uninteruptible BT mixup.

I'll post detailed info later if you are interested.
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I'm interested Belial ! Getting better anti-char strat is always a big plus for me :)

Sorry i'm still short of time, but the primary reason i dont try to outrange mitsu is because it's very risky to do so, again 66A+B and bA are key here, bA being safe against astaroth (not in frame, but in reality it's nearly unpunishable). 1A too is very nice against Astaroth at mid range, for a zoning / antistep tool, being safe (you can punish with 2K but it's piss poor damage and you loose advantage on hit).

And about Mitsu taking risks, i firmly believe this char should be played like this against others chars that can't punish well, and only restraining himself to poke and such against very damaging punishing char, like sophitia or cassandra. He's high risk / high reward all the way, imho :)
 
I agree with Saitoh there.
Asta Vs. Mitsu has always been a hard matchup, expecially in SCIV where Asta lost his only good ol' punisher, 66B.
Since that move right now is poo, it's all about "sniffing" where you can capitalize on opponents mistakes, and doing a lot of "reverse double choice", like taking risks while defending instead of just waiting and poking.
Honestly, how can possibly Asta now keep Mitsu away?
66B=> high, linear, lil' stagger, poo on hit-block.
A, B=> sooo little stagger
1A=>well, nice but not that strong, and risky
44A=> ok but slow, and not so good on block
A+B=> nice only on far hit, risky
22B=> if too close randomly whiffs
PT=>toooo slow and doesn't evade well


The only good stuff for Asta now is high risk-high reward, like throws, full charged bull rush, 22B4, 4[A+B] mixups.

And yes, Mitsu Vs. Asta can afford to abuse unsafe moves since at mid distance Asta can't do a shit.
 
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