Critical Edge: Cut Off Your Nose to Spite Your Face?

If you were watching my Salty Battles #08 stream yesterday, you may have witnessed that sometime during the event I was informed of a new "hot topic" within the fighting game community (FGC). Admittedly, I have done zero research on this topic; but the facts on the issue are not nearly as important as the public perception and what they believe to be true.

My knowledge of the topic in question is directly related to discussions (or should I say, arguments) with the stream monsters on the twitch.tv/8wayrun channel. Readers may say "but thats not true", or "he/she never said that"; but as stated before, its all about perception. This article is my entry into the ongoing and current debate known as "eSports VS FGC"... Don't want to hear what I have to say? Well I have a website, so I have a voice.

[EDITORS NOTE: The opinions of Jaxel in this article in no way represent the opinion Soulcalibur community as a whole. He is just one person, who happens to have a napoleon complex and delusions of grandeur. The community appreciates what EVO/SRK does for us.]

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Don't cut off your nose to spite your face... Which I'll do right now!

Before I get started, let me point out that the "FGC" we're talking about is not our community; it is strictly the EVO community, the SRK community, the Capcom community. I don't consider myself a part of that community; they have traditionally treated us like garbage and I know for a fact they don't respect us. In the past, when I've posted Soulcalibur events on their forums, they quickly responded with "Get that shit off of here!". Its the main reason why the Soulcalibur community has always done things our own way; we have our own tournaments, our own website, our own streams and our own community.

So why do we continue dealing with them? Because like it or not, they are a stepping stone for us to get more recognition. And this, case in point, is the entire premise of this article. More recognition leads to higher turnouts. Higher turnouts lead to larger pots. Larger pots lead to better competition. And better competition leads to more recognition. Ah, the circle of life. As long as we keep improving, the chances of us getting more recognition, professional gaming league status or corporate sponsorship increases as well.

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The circle of resting on the laurels of other people's work.

The FGC has reached this level. Much larger professional leagues such as NASL, WCG, MLG and others have begun to show increasing interest in fighting games. They have reached the next step, where they can start working with the "big boys", with large corporate backing and full scale sponsorships. Games like Starcraft and Halo have blown up in the competetive circuit thanks to these eSport professional gaming leagues. So what's the problem? I mean, this is a good thing right?

Well, yes and... yes, absolutely. Its absolutely a good thing. So why the detractors? Why does the majority of the FGC abhor the idea; to the point where the public impression is that the "leaders" of the FGC have been subverting the efforts of mergers with eSports leagues. Well that has to do with history; and as Albert Einstein once said, "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results". So if eSports leagues have historically treated the FGC like shit, why should they expect any different looking towards the future?

Well thats simple, the FGC we have now is far different than the FGC from 3 years ago and older. Back then, the eSports leagues treated the FGC like shit, because they were shit, they were a sideshow. 4 years ago, if you asked any member of the FGC what they thought about the future of fighting games, they probably would have told you that there wasn't one. Fighting games were dead, they didn't matter anymore; and back then even Soulcalibur IV was expected to be the final game in the series.

So what happened? What changed in the past 3 years that suddenly makes fighting games relevant again? Seth Killian... and Street Fighter 4. We can thank Capcom for many things, and for me, thats Soulcalibur V. Yes, Soulcalibur V would not be happening if not for Capcom single-handedly reviving the fighting game genre. Suddenly, not only do we matter again, but we are bigger than ever. So big, that eSports leagues are bidding for our attention. They can no longer treat the FGC like shit.

But still, the FGC is as xenophobic as usual. The same basic xenophobic nature that lead to the expected death of the genre a few years back. How do you expect to grow if you shun away outsiders? Its one of the many reasons I founded 8wayrun in the first place; to help get away of the existing prejudices within the community. People are afraid that by working with eSports, eSports will take over fighting games, destroy our rulesets, limit our chances for corporate sponsorships, favor only the "best" players, and destroy any chances for "grass roots" tournaments. And frankly, none of these fears make sense.

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Why would you want to be a part of The Grass Roots?

These leagues taking over fighting games? How is this possible? By an eSports league picking up fighting games, does that make every event outside of the league irrelevant? Well how is that any different than it is now? Is a random tournament at a random cyber cafe irrelevant in comparison to a major? Absolutely. But will a NASL event (for example) suddenly make EVO irrelevant? For that matter, does NASL make Dreamhack, WCG or MLG irrelevant? Of course not.

Will they destroy our rulesets? Chances are, yes they will. All these leagues have their own rulesets and their own methods. But that doesn't force us to follow them. Each league has their own rules, and events from outside each league aren't required to follow the rules of the others. For that matter, right now the FGC is forced to follow EVO rules; because they are our only choice. We must conform to them, because we have nowhere else to go. This will give us an oppurtunity for choice.

Limited corporate sponsorship? I haven't seen any evidence of this being true. There are half a dozen major leagues for Starcraft 2, and they have no issues finding sponsors. Will joining with eSports suddenly make it impossible for us to get our own sponsors? Well we weren't getting the sponsors in the first place! If you are big enough, the sponsors will sign; and eSports is one of the best ways to prove that we're big enough. In fact, it will probably make it easier to find sponsors!

Professional gaming leagues only help the absolute highest tiers of players? Fracturing the community into "pros" and "everyone else"? This is one of the most assanine arguments I've heard someone pull out of thin air in the need to hate on eSports. It makes no sense. Sure, in Starcaft, the tournaments have a very limited number of players. Do you know why? Because matches take over an hour! But they do in fact have a larger pool of players, and they are weeded out in qualifiers throughout the year.

But going back to the FGC, why is this a bad argument? Because its no different than how it is now. Our so called "grass roots" events only support the highest tiers of players. Only the top ranking players make any money playing in tournaments, and the rest lose money in entry fees and travel expenses. The only difference is that it doesn't take us a season to weed out the "pot-monsters", we can do it in a day.

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Not that kind of pot monster!

And of course the so called "destruction of grass roots events" brings us full circle back to the fear of eSports leagues "taking over" fighting games. The fear is that with eSports in the picture, events like SweetJohnnyCage's ECT or Alex Jebailey's CEO suddenly can't happen. These large grass roots events simply can't survive in the fierce competition of corporate sponsorship and marketting. This I have to admit, is a definite possibility. But in response to that, I have a question... Does it matter?

These grass roots events are only important because we don't currently have any large eSports leagues to latch onto. We only need these events as it stands, because they fill a vacuum due to the lack of majors. Once fighting games permeate the eSports leagues more fully and there is a glut of events (with large cash prizes, mind you), the need for grass roots will quickly evaporate. The point of "grass roots" is to grow; you shouldn't want to stay grass roots forever.

Which brings me back to Einstein. Historically, in the FGC, unless you have a way to atract new blood you will get the majority of players in your community within the first month of the game's release. What determines the longevity of your game is dependant on how well you can stave off the exodus to other games. From what I've seen, the FGC only has 2 ways to attract new blood. The most obvious is a game refresh, such as a new release, or a major patch; but the FGC has no control of this. The other? Herculean events such as EVO; which the FGC can control. Tournament attendance has traditionally spiked in the weeks prior to EVO.

Unfortunately, this brings me back to what I said before about choice. Right now we have EVO, and thats it. EVO is the life-blood of FGC, and we are stuck with them. The lively-hood of our games are largely dependant on the whims of a few people and whether or not they like and/or respect us. In 2004, the top two players in Soulcalibur 2, Mick and RTD (teammates) decided to not play seriously in grand finals as they were splitting their winnings after the event anyways. Except for grand finals, SC2 was a success, but because of the whims of the EVO staff, Soulcalibur did not return to EVO for 5 years.

In 2009, EVO brought Soulcalibur IV into the fold. Another succesful event, with lots of hype and great enthusiasm from both the players and the audience. As soon as EVO was over, many considered SC4 dead. Why? Because the game would not be at EVO 2010. Had EVO 2010 featured SC4, many players would have stuck with the game, strictly because it had the EVO card. DOA4 was one of the biggest games of it's time strictly due to it's membership into both the WCG and CGL. Entrance into eSports gaming leagues mean that SC5 could not only stay alive long after EVO has shunned it (and they will), but it could actually grow even larger as it becomes more ubiquitous in eSports events.

The fanatical anti-eSports sentiment I see in the FGC seems to be about territorialism. "It's our community, stop treading on our turf!" People are so afraid of getting their toes stepped on that they will go out of their way to sabotage the chances of their constituents to get larger prizes and corporate sponsorships. In a way, they are doing a disservice to their own community members because they are afraid of losing their power. It's not that they are shooting themselves in the foot, they are shooting their community members in the foot!


The sadder part is that the leaders of the FGC have convinced the masses that boycotting eSports is a good idea! As if they are protecting the "purity" of the fighting game community; a community that has traditionally be very mean to newer players. As if "professionalism" is a bad thing! Professionalism will not get rid of the hype or excitement from matches. eSports can not only increase the prize pools for top players, but make it easier for people to find events and competition.

Overall, the many benefits of joining eSports leagues to players, far outweighs the disadvantages posed to the few leaders in power. In fact, the biggest concern we should have now, is that the damage being done by certain individuals in the FGC, doesn't hurt the chances for us, the Soulcalibur community. Many of these eSports leagues may think that the FGC represent the entirety of the fighting game community as a whole. Hell, if they don't want in, we'll take their place!

Support Soulcalibur V for eSports!

* ADDENDUM * (added December 18, 2011)

I took this article off the front page of 8WR because I got a lot of outrage from people saying that this article would sour our chances of being at EVO. Honestly, if you guys think that SC5 won't be at EVO, simply because of this article; then you have a pretty low opinion on the integrity of the EVO committee.

Nowhere in the article do I say "Fuck EVO!". What I do say is that right now EVO holds the keys to our car; they are the deciders of our destiny; the future of our game rests in their hands. EVO holds the reigns for many fighting games, whether they know about it or not. I go on to say that joining in with eSports will help solve the issue of this monopoly. They say, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket".

The dissenters against eSports basically say that if an eSports league crumbles, then it essentially pulls the rug out from under whatever games they are hosting. Really? If MLG dies, does Starcraft 2 go down with the ship? Yes, when CGL crashed, DOA4 died... but thats because DOA4 should have died years earlier! The help of CGL was able to prop up DOA4 and support those players long after they would have been able to do on their own.

However, right now if EVO crumbles, what happens to the fighting game community? As long as there is interest left in a game, no league drama can kill it. As long as people keep wanting to support and play a game, new tournaments will fill the void. However, if the leaders of the FGC burn their bridges with eSports, the only tournaments we will have to fill the void are "grass roots"... in which case, all of our efforts to go mainstream will be for naught.

* ADDENDUM 2 * (added December 19, 2011)

Okay... I'm going to give you guys a scenario, but first, lets try to agree on something: eSports leagues WILL have fighting games in them. This is an unavoidable fact. It's not something that we can control. Can we agree on this? Okay, we are agreed.

Now, lets say we reject all support from the eSports leagues. What happens? MLG runs the tournaments their way, with their rules, likely pissing a lot of people off. This leads to many different possible outcomes. The obvious one, being that eSports leagues say "fuck it" to fighting games, and everything returns back to how it is now.

However, there is another possibility which people are forgetting. Since the FGC is not working with eSports, we end up having EVO majors and MLG majors on the same weekend. People may not like the way MLG is run, but the prizes are bigger. Sooner or later top players have to make a choice and decide to go with MLG because of the bigger pots. EVO events get smaller and smaller, and the FGC's control of the situation diminishes because they aren't working with MLG to rectify any issues. We all lose.

Now, lets say we try to work with eSports instead. Now we at least have some connection with them, and we can offer our advice and try to fix the many issues they've had in the past (although, who knows if they will listen; but I've heard their recent Tekken events have been run very well). We can help to try to fix issues, as well as make sure events don't compete with each other. Worst case? eSports leagues say "fuck it" and everything returns back to how it is now. Best case? We all win.

Now, Tocool asked in the 8wayrun chat room yesterday, "Why do we even need eSports? We've been fine for 15 years without them. Why do people suddenly think we'll die without them?" (paraphrased; yes, I do read the chat room, even if I don't always talk) This is an excellent question, which I don't feel has been properly answered yet in all the discussions in the FGC. Well to put it simply, its because of "escalation".

Fighting games are getting bigger, and people's times are limited. The number of fighting games coming out are increasing, and the amount of money being thrown around at major events is skyrocketing. We've been seeing a growing trend that players tend to flock to the bigger events and leave the less profitable games behind. A lot of players I know play Marvel and/or Street Fighter right now because thats where the players are, and thats where the money is... it doesn't matter whether they like the game or not.

Now, as stated before, eSports WILL have fighting games. The games featured in eSports leagues will naturally have the larger community because of the amount of money involved. We see this in the MOBA community. League of Legends, while having a huge advantage due to it being free to play from the start, has the majority of the community. And as other games come out, or go free to play; whether or not they are better is irrelevant unless they have some major promished cash in tournaments such as DOTA2.

So why do we suddenly need eSports, when we never needed it before? Because of limited time. If Soulcalibur V doesn't have any eSports leagues behind it (and I do consider EVO an eSports league, even though its "unique" in it's own right), we'll quickly be hearing the same things after the first 6 months: "I like SC5, but I see no reason to spend my limited time playing it, instead of practicing these other games which actually have huge tournaments". And sooner or later that common sentement becomes a downward spiral which turns into: "I like SC5, but no one else plays it, so why bother?".

In the past, a $200 payout tournament, and a $400 payout tournament for a lot of players wasn't enough to convince them to give up the game they preferred for the higher profit. But because of escalation, the margin of difference in payouts between the less popular games and the crowd-pleasers have become so large that they can't be ignored. Stick with a smaller game with a $500 payout, or switch to the less fun game, and try for that $5,000 payout.
 
Jason Axelrod

Jason Axelrod

Owner and Operator of 8WAYRUN
I fully support our game going into eSports territory.

I do not support alienating ourselves from the other fighting game communities, aside from having our own awesome forum.

SRK may act shitty towards our community and our game, but let's not sink to their level and do the same.
 
Why are people making a lot of baseless assumptions.

SRK doesn't represent the FGC. The site has just barely started showcasing other fighters on its front page. Anyone who has any sort of realism knows the site is for the 2d community and the majority of it is Capcom fighters.

So a few of you that play these games are assuming that unless the Capcom community at SRK picks up SCV, the game won't succeed? Lets get real...they'll probably dabble with the game for a couple of months realize it's 3d and go back to their 2d fighters. People that play 2d and 3d are a minority.

This community needs to learn to stand on its own. Just like Tekken does. I am personally tired of the SRK community and the it's lack of maturity. Them denying Esports is prime example of this. Esports doesn't really care whether Capcom fighters are represented or not. They make enough money already from more popular games and will continue to do so.

The only one who loses out in this equation is the Capcom community.
 
I think you're going to see a split here in opinions between the folks who have SC as their primary game (or are Capcom haters) , and folks who are Capcom fans first. One group will be heavily for this, the other against it.

Neither opinion in wrong, but I think Malice's idea is best for any non-Capcom community. Also, you don't have to abandon EVO to participate in MLG. VF5 participated in both in 2008-9 timeframe, and neither community had a problem with that (though VF was way too small to matter) If EVO wants to have SC, that's great, and you should support that. However, it's not something that should be relied on. Especially since EVO has a history of hurting some game communities- GG and Smash being the most notable examples.

If your goal is to compete with Capcom games, the only way you can grow the SC community above the SF community is through bigger prize pots and bigger tournies. That's something that you'll never get as long as you're tethered to a tourney circuit which is based around a competitor's game and doesn't fully respect anything outside of Capcom fighters. If you fail at that goal, you've likely still enlarged the community, and there's little risk- as much of the SC community is outside of the Capcom community, which is likely to start declining soon anyways due to a string of poor/mediocre games (either critically or sales).

It is quite possible that if other fighting game series hoist themselves on the Capcom/EVO banner, they could go down with the ship come 2013-14 or so. UMVC3 hasn't sold that well. AE hasn't wowed people all that much. SFvsTK is probably going to get horrible reviews (seriously, game reviewers I've talked to are calling Capcom stupid, and it's quite possible SFvsTK will be a bad game even without the gem issue) You need to build a scene that can last and grow outside of the Capcom scene.

Personally, I support Jaxel's idea 100%. That said, turning this into SC community vs Capcom community is not going to do any good.


One side suggestion- maybe 8WR should partner with a non-EVO major and declare that as SC's "national". The other majors are often much friendlier to non-Capcom games, and many of them would welcome the support/hype/traffic. Final Round and Devastation are probably the most logical choices here. The stronger the other majors are, the better it is for the FGC and individual game scenes as a whole.
 
Basically because of how EVo holds the monopoly in the FGC, you see how FGCs have to bend over to the immature SRK community. It's sad really.

If they're were other tournaments with as much money and prestige as EVo, this shit wouldn't happen. Right now no other FG tournament comes close to competing with EVo.

But slowly and surely this monopoly won't last.
 
we need to find ways to get past beefs like this instead of make new ones within the FGC
Making beef is the only way I know how to live. We should have beef with SRK because they don't praise SoulCalibur. And we should have beef with eSports leagues because they don't praise SoulCalibur neither.

The world needs a little more hate, if you ask me.
 
I fully support our game going into eSports territory.

I do not support alienating ourselves from the other fighting game communities, aside from having our own awesome forum.

SRK may act shitty towards our community and our game, but let's not sink to their level and do the same.

Shoutouts to you OOFMATIC!!!
I totally agree with you on this. Anyways people always confuse the community on forums with the scene. Forums are full of self proclaimed serious players who really aren't. 8wayrun not making an exception. There is lots of people here who are not really interested in being part of a competitive scene and SRK is the same. I'm more of a multi-game player but i do know the Capcom scene a lot and while i do agree that a lot of the scene are not into 3D games , they don't necessarily bitch about it they just don't play 3D games. The ones bitchin are usually the less skilled players and the stream monsters.

I simply do not think that being judged unjustly by others is a good reason to simply do the same. A wise man said : An eye for an eye is only gonna make the whole world blind.
 
From my experience back in the day, SRK never really shit on SC, at least without good reason. SC2 while not as popular as 2d games, was treated pretty equally. SC3 had difficulty because people couldn't decide on rulesets, people being stupid and wanting CAS characters tournament legal, etc. SC4 was just a bad game, and was only further hindered by arguments over Algol, Hilde, and button mapping.

Also, the SC4 community itself seems to LIKE shutting itself off from the rest. I met a few people at NEC who were generally cool (Bibulus, Hubbs, etc) But overall it seems like a good many of the SC4 players just like being elitist and shitty. There was so much drama about people not wanting to get up from the SC5 stations and actually, you know...letting other people play the game. However, less than 10 feet away everything is just fine and dandy with the rotations on the TTT2 arcade cabinets!

What I agree with Jaxel on overall is the sentiment that it would be a good thing for SC5 to be picked up by a major competitive league. It would not destroy "grass roots" tournaments because people would want to have more competition/practice in between major tournaments! It would give the game the exposure it needed so that new blood is brought into the community.
 
However, less than 10 feet away everything is just fine and dandy with the rotations on the TTT2 arcade cabinets!
The TTT2 cabinets had forced rotation. The game itself would kick people off after a few matches, so policing wasn't needed for TTT2 the same way it was for SC5.
 
In 2009, I felt that SC4 did well enough at EVO to return for 2010, especially when there wasn’t a suitable replacement which is why the last game for that year was brought to a vote. Everyone had the sentiment that Soulcalibur wasn’t going to be back for whatever reason, so if EVO wanted to show their support towards us, they could have just kept the decision to themselves and brought the game on for another year. But SC had 0 chance in a vote left mainly in the hands of the 2D crowd with a history of being segregated and hostile towards us. I appreciated the support Ponder gave us, but we had no chance compared to amount of people who are on SRK at that time. Maybe things could have been different with some reassurance, but who knows, that's all in the past now.
And for whatever reason, they felt differently. Maybe it was because SC4 was largely viewed as broken at the time and they feared a huge player drop-off. Whatever the case, they just didn't have the confidence that putting a lot of hard work and resources into featuring SC4 at Evo would result in solid attendance. Given the reaction SC4 (i.e., Hilde) received and the massive bitchfest in the community that had been going on for some time, I'd say their concerns were at least somewhat well-placed.

Whether or not it was left up to 2D players (which is basically saying it was left up to most fighting game players, but hey) is barely relevant, because even different 2D games have very different audiences, and non-Capcom games had trouble gaining acceptance well before SF4 and Marvel 3 came into the picture. The fact is, there were more Melty Blood players willing to step up to the plate to support their game than there were SC4 players, and it showed. Evo organizers did what they could to make the process as inclusive as possible. It baffles me that people are still so butthurt about this.

To soakrates points, the Soulcalibur community is already severed from the rest of the fighting game community. If we weren’t, then we’d all be on SRK happy as a clam. I’m all about supporting whoever wants to help blow up SCV, doesn’t matter who. And it’s not about severing ourselves from the people who’ve supported us, but separating ourselves from the few vocal people in the Capcom side of the community who feel that nothing good can come from eSports.
So the fact that 8WR members aren't on SRK en masse is your evidence that SC is somehow cut off from the rest of the FGC, even though SRK has done a lot to publicize SC5, even though there is palpable excitement for SC5 in the SRK community, even though many SC players also play other fighting games, even though SC4 has been at a ton of majors, and even though a significant number of well-known 2D players have said they will be picking up SC5. Surely you are intelligent enough to realize how stupid this sounds.

And again, the opinion that "nothing good can come from eSports" is not nearly as widely shared as you and Jaxel are making it out to be. Many prominent people in the FGC have stated very plainly that they believe the FGC can work with pro-gaming leagues, so long as there is enough understanding on both sides to prevent fighting games from being bastardized.

MLG didn't pick up VF5, WCG did. I don't know how it went exactly, but the response by the VF community seemed pretty lukewarm at the time. I don't know how things happened with GG and Smash at Evo. Mistakes may have been made, but the Smash community, for its part, has done fine outside of all the community in-fighting.

And why are we even talking about "competing" with Capcom games? Many SC players, myself included, ENJOY Capcom games. There have been great strides made in getting Capcom players to adopt SC5. We gain nothing, and in fact stand to lose a whole lot, by alienating ourselves from the rest of the FGC.

It is quite possible that if other fighting game series hoist themselves on the Capcom/EVO banner, they could go down with the ship come 2013-14 or so. UMVC3 hasn't sold that well. AE hasn't wowed people all that much. SFvsTK is probably going to get horrible reviews (seriously, game reviewers I've talked to are calling Capcom stupid, and it's quite possible SFvsTK will be a bad game even without the gem issue) You need to build a scene that can last and grow outside of the Capcom scene.
A game's sales numbers are hardly an indicator of its competitive longevity. MK9 sold a lot more than SF4 and Marvel, but despite a nice sprint out of the gate, its popularity in tournaments has dwindled massively in the last several months. It's true that SFxT is looking more and more like a huge misstep, but there is renewed interest in AE after the release of ver. 2012 and Marvel is still growing in popularity. Whether or not it can be sustained is anyone's guess, but keep in mind that Evo still grew in attendance year after year when fighting games were in the doldrums.
 
I was in the VF5 community at the time. The response was positive, the problem was the community was so damn small that it didn't matter.

As for MK9, it did well at Evo, but died afterwards, KOF has taken over MK9's spot here. SC4 has proven that folks still show up for it- look at NEC.

Locally, I haven't seen AE draw anyone back to that game, the folks who left for AE are largely now playing KOF or Marvel here. UMVC3 will be the big game at Evo next year, but I don't think it will draw much more then it did last year (new players will counteract that folks who left).
 
I think Jaxel is doing what ever he can to keep his baby SC alive this coming year. Jaxel with alot of help brought the splintered SC community together as a whole with the birth of 8way but it wasn't enough to keep the game alive. I thinks this time we should spend less time fighting among ourselves playing SC5 ONLINE :) Capcom is successful because people play there games online religiously. We most do the same and follow Maximillion's example of "The Online Gamer"
 
>_> after reading this I feel a little less inclined to be a part of this community. Why say that your are not apart the FGC and are willing to complete disregard it for Esports? Capcom games have lead the American FGC for a very long time and what's happening now is not any different from back in the day but its just on a grander scale. It crazy to see this community's leaders say something like this when interest in SCV is pretty high even among 2D players and it is probably a Shoe-in for EVO. If SCV turns out to be a really good game like say MK (because regardless of what many think about it, it was a general success and still pulls the #'s), people will give it a look regardless of Stream Monsters and Online only members of SRK say.

But honestly looking back at Soul Calibur's competitive track record, its been inconsistent, unbalanced, and stuck in Tekken's shadow. You can see why it has not gained to same kind of notoriety and respect that Tekken has held for a while (Hell its been at EVO since 2K3 so you can't say its all Capcoms fault). SC1 from what I can tell wasn't played as competitively as TTT1 was. As soakrates said SC2 @ EVO 2K4 it wasn't the most popular game but hey it made EVO. SC3 was barely played competitively due to terrible glitches. SC4 made EVO but community problems, Hilde, and general poor reception of the game made it die out somewhat. Its not hard to see why it hasn't been part of the best and brightest of the FGC but things can change.

SCV may be Soul Calibur's SF4. Not literally but this game can turn out really good. Many so far have sung nothing praises about this game regardless of some choice mechanics. Time can only tell how this game is received but if it has that MK9/SF4 bang, you can bet your ass people will be all over it. People from every fighting game will at least try it out but that's all you really need in the first place but if you want to distance yourself from the greater FGC, I believe there is gonna be a hard time gathering #'s for those MLG-esque tournaments. Reason why Tekken 6 failed at MLG was because of the fact that it did not have the numbers.

In addition, Tekken 6 at MLG was not success. Sure they played payers more cash, sure it gave Filthie Rich a spot as community manager @ Namco but it did not receive the numbers to have a second season. If it was a success, we'd see more community run Tekken 6 tournaments with e-sports backing and sponsored players (think bar fights), Tekken 6 pulling better numbers at tournaments, and of course a second season and maybe even more seasons until TTT2. Instead, Tekken lost more than it received. Even lower turnouts at tournaments, a few top players dropping the game (Fab comes to mind), large community run tournaments like strong style are gone. It crashed harder than it would have.

This is what the FGC is afraid of and its a good reason. It accelerated the death of a good competitive game by making the bad choice of picking it up. Not something to bat you eye at at all. I see nothing wrong with E-sports and the FGC coming together but at the moment they don't understand us and we don't understand them. We want to stay us and make more money, they want us to make more money too...and in turn make them money but by doing that they may have to take away certain things that makes the FGC the FGC. There is a lot of other fluff but that's what I feel the main problem is. Adding the fact that the FGC has been sustaining itself pretty well these last few years, we don't necessarily have to be with e-sports right now.

that's my $.02...
 
On Tekken 6, how many fighters these days last multiple years anyways without some sort of sequel/update?

Tekken 6 just got old, that's what hurt it. MLG also messed with the format in a way that turned people off, which didn't help. (They gave incentives to cherry-pick your opponent)
 
Tekken 6 just got old, that's what hurt it. MLG also messed with the format in a way that turned people off, which didn't help. (They gave incentives to cherry-pick your opponent)
I know that but when MLG dropped it, it accelerated its crash.
 

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Alyssa9690
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Short stream :) Guess I will stay up after all.

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