Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

darkfender said:
hotnikketz: "you are playing predictable" how could i doubt it @_@
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It's an inference. Obviously, if you game is HIGH heavy....and you're being countered with TC, then you're being too predictable with your game.

It seems that raph isn t doing good lately in competitions and i bet he will do constantly worse.....
If i will be wrong you can tell me "you are using him wrong" as much as you want....
But if i am right will you once admt raph has serious weaknesses we need to be aware of instead of considering opponents lacks of knowledge as raphael strength?
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I don't know about all that....nor do I care that much. What I do care about though is that if you're in the Raph forum, and you're having problems you can PUT VIDEOS UP and allow us to analyse and see if we can help you do better. Help us help you. I don't care much for tiers....as long as a character is competitive, and it seems as if he is.
 
yeah nikkelz: darkfender has his moments but I trust he just has temporary lapses in judgments where he misunderstands the purpose of a character subforum.

Here's some food for thought: It's much harder for raph (i haven't tested on other characters) to pull 44 moves off a single step compared to 66. Ie, if you go 266B you'll get what you want, but 244B ends up as 4B for me a lot of the time. Obviously doing quickstep is easier (and probably preferable) but single step into 44 moves drops a lot on me. I switched sides to 2p and the same issue occured.

And: mitsu's MST B BE can tank raph's 4B, but you can easily do a slightly delayed prep4 to catch his counter-attack and send him flying for 69 damage.
 
im seriously questioning how people are applying prep that it is apparently so easy to deal with. i think some raph players need to learn how to mix up better, hell i had holyforce falling for prep shenanigans
 
darkfender said:
another weakness i found...
I lately was experiencing spacing with prep4/SE....to avoid punishers..
I didn t take in account a simple option: the uber scV backstep et voilà you whiff with any option, whereas if you keep in range you get punished :|
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An example would be nice.
Say, i hit with 3(B) and do SE at closish range....they cannot backstep my options except for probably the Kick. Your post is difficult to understand because you're nitpicking and expect SE or Prep 4 to be bulletproof. You're giving me the impression that SE is useless because of this and that. Everything is CONTEXT sensitive. Different scenarios yield different results. Prep 4 is strictly for defense, if your opponent backsteps you on the retreat then do SE then cancel to neutral depending. Again it is contextual in that what range you're at, what character you're playing and the response your opponent makes will determine what makes sense at that point. Please stop with the blanket statements and give SPECIFIC issues like...What punishes? What range? What character?

I think SE doesn t exist in most matchups.
Only option is BBB CHC or BB NC
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Blanket statement again.

Raph range nerfs are huge and impact his game a lot.
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What range nerfs are you having a serious problem with? and compared to which series?

Also 33KB is really good again....worse than 4 but still very usable and deals better with super TJ
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I would agree, but here are my issues with it.
1) The 8WR buffering mechanics in this game prevent me from accessing it as quickly as I used to
2) Everytime I do use it, I think to myself, maybe 22B would've been the better choice anyway
3) The BE version when I want to get adv from the GB...whiffs a lot even when the K hits
Not a bad move, but those are MY specific issues with it
 
Fendante said:
Considering that Prep K BE does good damage but is easily TCed unless noobs fall for the second high kick, shouldn't this move be improved?? It is guaranteed after a successful Prep 4 but currently Prep K can be stepped and the second kick is 0 on block and high. I don't see why the entire move could be mid mid with the second kick having the same animation as Prep K. Right now, the move only works against crouchers and late steppers.
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Aside from the 22B combo issues, this is the ONLY move of his that I would buff. Make it track step, maybe make it SLIGHTLY faster. I'd even be willing to drop the BE entirely for that.
 
darkfender said:
lol so i have to read...
knowtow can read opponent mind so he knows when opponent decide to wrBE instead of blocking at disadvantage....considering it evades 99% raph moveset....unfortunately i lack those ESP
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So if I don't guess right every single time, a punishment option is invalid? Go play Pyrrha already, jeez.

Also contest starts now to see who can add the most random N's to my name. I'll think of a prize later.
 
Aside from the 22B combo issues, this is the ONLY move of his that I would buff. Make it track step, maybe make it SLIGHTLY faster. I'd even be willing to drop the BE entirely for that.
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What if prep k played a role similar of the old prep a (sc4)? Prep ab tracks step fine (and has no other purpose), and a quick safe mid would encourage the step/attack mixup (which the devs seem to want), which solves the current issues of crouching vs prep.

Either way buffing prep indirectly buffs SE and empty shenanigans, which are hard to set up if they don't fear prep.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
So if I don't guess right every single time, a punishment option is invalid? Go play Pyrrha already, jeez.

Also contest starts now to see who can add the most random N's to my name. I'll think of a prize later.
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really its so hard the concept of risk/reward?
it means various things....
Most of all that risk is made of chance of failing and damage taken
opposed to Reward made of chance of success and damage dealt

IF you can balance those 4 things you have a balanced game....
I won t discuss how that apply to raph being the worst of the whole cast in chance of success and one of the worse in damage output.


@hotnikkelz agsinst SE try back step at distance OR FC3B
you won t eat a single SE.
Mixup is closing with B.....unsafe as hell for .....few damage :O
And that is what RAPH can do ...imagine what can do Night for ex with wrB or backstep and punish.....

Aeon has that TC headbutt that will also avoid damage being TJ and leave raph defenseless on HIT also having a long recovery.

Almost every characters has tools to deal with SE entry <===

Yes few characters have problems dealing with range but those are really a minority and probably just because i still didn t find anything.....but leave me time.....
 
Mandritti said:
KowtowRnobinson.
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You didn't even include the N as the second letter or last of Kowtow, Knowtow or Kowtown or any of the other shit I get all the time lol. Bojack is squarely in the lead even though he's clearly cheating by holding down that N key lol.

dnarnkfnendner: I'm firmly aware of the risk reward factor of that stupid ass BE. She's gotta be crouched to do it, which gives you situations to look for as possible/probable spots where she's gonna let it fly. And it either works for a combo, or you beat it and she gets back thrown. Either way she loses half a meter and it costs you none. When a move is really good, but easily back thrown when predicted, I'd say the risk/reward is right fucking in line. She can use it as a great counter tool to your offense, but if she's just spamming it you walk in a fucking circle and give that bitch the ol' reach around.

It is certainly NOT a low risk move, if you ask me. Raph 22B at range 2 is a low risk move. Leixia's BE is gonna get her killed if she spams it on anyone who's punishing properly.
 
@cowtown
its like saying you can see 1 frame moves >__> superhuman reflexes plus mind reading skills i cannot match those....


Lets think:
If nightmare's CE did use half bar would it be fair?
Well leixia BE is better


Also raph 22B is easily stepped by tons of TS moves dealing the usual half health....unfortunately those moves are safe for the most.
QS 22B for mitsu/nightmare/astaroth talking of few.
Natsu also, leixia wrBE (just to say) etc etc etc

22B also has realy few chances to be successful its most a step punisher whereas crumple stun bug hinder the reward also...and the needed QS impied in the command makes the move less effective, more reactable.

I'll be the first to say this but i use 22B really only when i am sure to land it....because at that range opponent knows what to expect.
 
you know you can input 6632B to get 22 b w/o much of the QS animation right. it makes it a pretty gd poke at mid range and when people catch on u use 22a or 22k.
 
I use 6632B as a mixup from dash-grabs after 22A on CH or prepK on hit. The ONLY people who know to attack from eating 22A on NH are other raph players which is hilarious.
 
darkfender said:
@hotnikkelz agsinst SE try back step at distance OR FC3B
you won t eat a single SE.
Mixup is closing with B.....unsafe as hell for .....few damage :O
And that is what RAPH can do ...imagine what can do Night for ex with wrB or backstep and punish.....

Aeon has that TC headbutt that will also avoid damage being TJ and leave raph defenseless on HIT also having a long recovery.

Almost every characters has tools to deal with SE entry <===

Yes few characters have problems dealing with range but those are really a minority and probably just because i still didn t find anything.....but leave me time.....
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I think you're misunderstanding me. There are many counters to SE, I'm quite aware of that, but your statements are too blanket. You're basically saying you can counter this so that's useless. You have to make good decisions. Obviously as a Raph player you won't use SE at far range...why do that??? that makes no sense. The B is linear, the A is shorter range, and the K is even smaller range. There's no mix or pressure at that range. why would I do it there?
These are the things you should think about before you use ANY stance, and this doesn't apply to just Raph.

I didn't get the mixup with B unsafe as hell part...what are u talking about?

Every character SUPPOSED to have the tools to deal with SE. It's a battle of who reads who.

Let me explain what I mean with an example. Say i land 3(B) at closeish range and slipped on the combo. Why can't I SE? keep in mind, I know and my opponent knows that he can deal with SE if HE KNOWS that it's coming....but he also knows it's dangerous to 'attack' me there, as PREP B or K will interrupt pretty much everything. That hesitation is what makes this work. What if I just did 3B and stepped. What if i did PREP 4. The options are numerous. The point is, we cannot make blanket statements. There are situations where backstep can work, there's situations where it will fail.
 
darkfender said:
@cowtown
its like saying you can see 1 frame moves >__> superhuman reflexes plus mind reading skills i cannot match those....
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@dnurkfununundnur

So robotic reflexes and telepathy are required to make a read that if she's crouched, she MIGHT do WS B EX, and it might just be a good time to try a sidestep? I wasn't aware. Besides I think some players with better reaction times than myself probably could look for it and sidestep on reaction, the actual hit does not come out quickly at all.
 
hotnikkelz said:
....
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i think instead i am not clear on a point...
Characters have an ALMOST universal answer to raph SE entry so its not matter of guessing good (thing already horribly against raph) its a matter of knowledge not harder than thnking " oh he is at -12 i ll go for 6BB".

@sdhgfoacwevcow
crouching is 1 frame....but even if it wasnt its not the problem....
because it actually evades early any moves SO you can also have super reflexes and see that unfortunately if your opponent is not a noob, you will be catch while, having priority, you are attacking...

Its not that hard considering opponent can thing "cool i'll evade 99,9% of raph moveset at disadvantage so lets use that AFTER raph blocked and at the proper distance so he is forced to attack".

Ok the move itself is plain stupid and needs to be hugely nerfed...yet you can t tell me you its not a problem because ONLY with mind reading powers you can prevent it enough....

Even expecting it wll save you few times but eating it just once will probably lose the match.
 
I actually don't even really have a respectable low risk "keep em honest" type mid. 3B by itself is pretty laughable, and 3(B) is too high risk for me to want to throw that out willy-nilly. BB seems like the only choice and I've already mentally rejected that move. I don't want to always backdash, but it seems like almost always an honest option.

I'm not even going to bother commenting on what i'm reading between you guys because it doesn't make any sense to me. Ambiguous sarcasm is detrimental for an internet conversation.

However,( given a raph v raph mirror lets say), I believe that 1 player is much more likely to use FC 3B not as a reaction to SE, but more of a reaction to a prep entry move.
It would probably take a lot of concentration (even for an experienced raph opponent) to always react to SE, as SE can be done anytime during prep (and its not even the only option). If the opponent can consistently do this, he's probably a better player than me (or I'm being way too obvious). This is the inherent problem with stance characters when you theory-fight them.

SE is too exaggerated though (takes too long to perform the stance animation before you're allowed to execute moves) as it takes about 20 frames before you can even execute your attack and it seems even longer than it takes nightmare to do his B+K NSS stance. However, I do like the "delayed" aspect of it, as you can train your opponent to react to a later part of the SE animation.
 
WuHT said:
However,( given a raph v raph mirror lets say), I believe that 1 player is much more likely to use FC 3B not as a reaction to SE, but more of a reaction to a prep entry move.

This is the inherent problem with stance characters when you theory-fight them.
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exactly what i tried to say from release day >.>
 
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