Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
there's been plenty of remasters that don't actually enhance the product at hand and just do a few minor things. Textures aren't always even enhanced in some cases. So long as they have the actual files and haven't lost anything crucial then its really not a huge undertaking.
I think probably they do have the files for SCII and forward, but I doubt they do for SCI and SE, so the best they can do for those is a straight port (which with regard to SCI, they did previously, on XBOX 360), unless they want to just outright remake them. Assets from games in those eras were very rarely preserved as individual asset files; indeed, if not for the fact that Project Soul were in a habit of re-using their assets for later games, it's probable that they wouldn't even have the assets for SCII (and thus would not have gotten SCII:HDO) since by that point in time, most companies were not in the habit of archiving their assets.

But you're still massively under-appreciating how much work this would be, if we're talking about a true remaster and not a port. Because no, SCII:HDO is not just a straight port of SCII vanilla running on better hardware than was available a the time. If an HD remaster were as simple as that, the remaster market would be fifty times larger than it is. I reiterate: remastering 5-9 games would be massive undertaking that they could not have any realistic hope of recouping their costs on. It's a fantastic daydream: I've indulged in it myself far more times than any adult can reasonably justify. But I can recognize it for being just that: a daydream.
Besides, just having the games preserved on a current day PC port at the very least would be worth it to enough fans. In general its a pretty good collection.
Now that I can certainly agree with: I'd happily buy any re-release of any mainline game in the series, even if the port had no graphics upgrade or online capability: I'd buy each for twenty to thirty dollars (or pounds) apiece just for the convenience of having them all on one current generation machine. But I'm not the average consumer. If they re-released 5-9 games in one compendium, they couldn't charge much more than $60, just because of how the market for digital re-releases works. That's just not remotely enough for them to turn a profit, even without a graphical upgrade or online capability (and having those features absent would drastically reduce the number of people willing to buy the product at any given pricepoint).

Even getting a game to emulate and run bug free on contemporary systems is a cost in itself, nevermind mixing in netcode and matchmaking for online play, graphical updates and all the other bells and whistles expected of a compilation. Now, don't get me wrong, if they did make a nine game compilation complete with online functionality and upgraded visuals for each entry, I'd pay $300 for it. They couldn't beat me off with a stick as I tried to stuff the cash into their pockets, tears of joy streaming down my face. But again, I don't think there's enough people like me to even begin justifying such an effort.
indeed even if its juts 1 or 2 stages, we have to keep in mind that SC6 did not got that big of a budget this time around so if this happens we should at least be grateful for their efforts.
You know, usually I'm pretty critical of people being too entitled in what they expect out of a given entry in the franchise, because obviously they have to strike a balance of competing elements--especially today, when production costs are up so high, their market share is down, and they can't possibly accommodate everyone's priorities for a $60 pricetag, and the serialized content model is not yet established enough for them to parse a game out in pieces. But honestly, the showing for the stages here is so incredibly pathetic (and I honestly don't think that the word is hyperbolic or that there's a more reasonable description) that it really does feel like this is something that some more effort is due on. There has literally, in more than twenty years, never been a game with fewer stages than this one: SCI (released in 1998) had more stages... What's more, the stages we do have in VI are bland, stylistically uninspired, lacking in dynamic features, mostly lacking in detail, and general all-around generic in feel. Further, not a single one has interactive features (aside from the Astral Chaos barrier on the inner ring, which I guess barely qualifies) and none have visual or platform variants. It is just so much less than we have traditionally gotten with a Soulcalibur game, that I think we can legitimately feel a little robbed in this aspect.

I'm sympathetic insofar as this content (along with roster size and CaS elements) was obviously given short-shrift to accommodate the expanded story content (underwhelming as it it is in every possible way) which they new they had to hit hard this time around because of complaints arising out of SCIV and SV's story modes. So I get why they arrived at their priorities (much as I disagree with them). But too much was taken out of the stage selection, and it very, very seriously hampers the replayability/general enjoyability of this game. I don't mind paying for it in a season pass, but they really need to address this if they want the game to have any significant amount of longevity. People are very divided on how good this game is and where it sits in the SC hierarchy, but pretty much everybody agrees the stage selection, and let's not mix words, sucks the big one. We faithful fans definitely deserve better in this respect. So will I be grateful if they put in the effort? I mean, yeah, technically yes. But I'll be more than disappointed if they don't: I'll feel they really dropped the ball here on a core aspect of the game.
I remember watching a tournament, I do not know if I've heard wrong, but I'm sure the commentators mentioned that Seong Mi-na was in the game since Soul Edge, but she does not have a own stage in VI.
View attachment 63218
Yes, Seong-mina definetly goes back to Soul Edge: she was the first character I ever mained, to the extent I mained anybody back then. But no one has gotten their "own" stage in SCVI (aside from Inferno clearly belonging in the Astral Chaos and Geralt and 2B to their respective stages). Some games in the franchise have made an explicit link between particular characters and particular stages (through the Exhbition Theatre or other supplemental/library content or just very strong and clear thematic links). But, other than guests characters and maybe a few returning characters, that's just clearly not the case here. The stages are pretty generic in tone and ambiguous as to location. There's a handful characters who arguably have a stage they fit best with--for example, I suppose we can assume that Maxi is at home in Indian Port, given he is pirate?; Sophitia surely belongs in the Shrine of Eurydice; Kilik has always been at home home at the Proving Grounds; and Nightmare seems appropriately situated in the new ambigously nefarious-looking location in Ostrheinsburg Castle--but most characters don't seem to fit anywhere in particular, even if certain stages suit better than others.
I wish they'd bluntly just recycle all the SC4/5 stages and just make them vibrant for the sake of this game having lots of variety. Even if we get like 2 genuinely new stages then a ton of ports it would be the cheapest solution for them and the best for us to get a lot easily. (Though they may need to do some work on the stage sizes).
Well, importing new stages across different engines and platforms would not really save them as much time as you may be thinking. Some assets can be re-used, but rendering them such that they look tonally consistent with the rest of the game as constructed in the present engine would actually arguably end up being more work than starting from scratch, particularly as they would have to upres everything without making it look like crap. Beyond that, fully half or more of the locations in SCIV and SCV would just not make sense for SCVI's narrative. I think it could all just come off as ill-fitting to SCVI. But that said, I really do think stage design for the franchise hit it's zenith in SCIII and SCIV, so I'd be thrilled to see some of those stages return. Thesmophoros' Imperial Garden? You bet. Phantom Pavillion? Hell yeah. Sailor's Rest? Oh baby!
 
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LostSoul_83

[07] Duelist
I think probably they do have the files for SCII and forward, but I doubt they do for SCI and SE, so the best they can do for those is a straight port (which with regard to SCI, they did previously, on XBOX 360), unless they want to just outright remake them. Assets from games in those eras were very rarely preserved as individual asset files; indeed, if not for the fact that Project Soul were in a habit of re-using their assets for later games, it's probable that they wouldn't even have the assets for SCII (and thus would not have gotten SCII:HDO) since by that point in time, most companies were not in the habit of archiving their assets.

But you're still massively under-appreciating how much work this would be, if we're talking about a true remaster and not a port. Because no, SCII:HDO is not just a straight port of SCII vanilla running on better hardware than was available a the time. If an HD remaster were as simple as that, the remaster market would be fifty times larger than it is. I reiterate: remastering 5-9 games would be massive undertaking that they could not have any realistic hope of recouping their costs on. It's a fantastic daydream: I've indulged in it myself far more times than any adult can reasonably justify. But I can recognize it for being just that: a daydream.

Now that I can certainly agree with: I'd happily buy any re-release of any mainline game in the series, even if the port had no graphics upgrade or online capability: I'd buy each for twenty to thirty dollars (or pounds) apiece just for the convenience of having them all on one current generation machine. But I'm not the average consumer. If they re-released 5-9 games in one compendium, they couldn't charge much more than $60, just because of how the market for digital re-releases works. That's just not remotely enough for them to turn a profit, even without a graphical upgrade or online capability (and having those features absent would drastically reduce the number of people willing to buy the product at any given pricepoint).

Even getting a game to emulate and run bug free on contemporary systems is a cost in itself, nevermind mixing in netcode and matchmaking for online play, graphical updates and all the other bells and whistles expected of a compilation. Now, don't get me wrong, if they did make a nine game compilation complete with online capacity and upgraded visuals for each entry, I'd pay $300 for it. They couldn't beat me off with a stick as I tried to stuff the cash into their pockets, tears of joy streaming down my face. But again, I don't there's enough people like me to even begin justifying such an effort.

You know, usually I'm pretty critical of people being too entitled in what they expect out of a given entry in the franchise, because obviously they have to strike a balance of competing elements--especially today, when production costs are up so high, their market share is down, and they can't possibly accommodate everyone's priorities for a $60 pricetag, and the serialized content model is not yet established enough for them to parse a game out in pieces. But honestly, the showing for the stages here is so incredibly pathetic (and I honestly don't think that the word is hyperbolic or that there's a more reasonable description) that it really does feel like this is something that some more effort is due on. There has literally, in more than twenty years, never been a game with fewer stages than this one: SCI (released in 1998) had more stages... What's more, the stages we do have in VI are bland, stylistically uninspired, lacking in dynamic features, mostly lacking in detail, and general all-around generic in feel. Further, not a single one has interactive features (aside from the Astral Chaos barrier on the inner ring, which I guess barely qualifies) and none have visual or platform variants. It is just so much less than we have traditionally gotten with a Soulcalibur game, that I think we can legitimately feel a little robbed in this aspect.

I'm sympathetic insofar as this content (along with roster size and CaS elements) was obviously given short-shrift to accommodate the expanded story content (underwhelming as it it is in every possible way) which they new they had to hit hard this time around because of complaints arising out of SCIV and SV's story modes. So I get why they arrived at their priorities (much as I disagree with them). But too much was taken out of the stage selection, and it very, very seriously hampers the replayability/general enjoyability of this game. I don't mind paying for it in a season pass, but they really need to address this if they want the game to have any significant amount of longevity. People are very divided on how good this game is and where it sits in the SC hierarchy, but pretty much everybody agrees the stage selection, and let's not mix words, sucks the big one. We faithful fans definitely deserve better in this respect. So will I be grateful if they put in the effort? I mean, yeah, technically yes. But I'll be more than disappointed if they don't: I'll feel they really dropped the ball here on a core aspect of the game.

Yes, Seong-mina definetly goes back to Soul Edge: she was the first character I ever mained, to the extent I mained anybody back then. But no one has gotten their "own" stage in SCVI (aside from Inferno clearly belonging in the Astral Chaos). Some games in the franchise have made an explicit link between particular character and particular stages (through the Exhbition Theatre or other supplemental/library content or just very strong and clear thematic links). But, other than guests characters and maybe a few returning characters, that's just clearly not the case here. The stages are pretty generic in tone and ambiguous as to location. There's a handful characters who arguably have a stage they fit best with--for example, I suppose we can assume that Maxi is at home in Indian Port, given he is pirate?; Sophitia surely belongs in the Shrine of Eurydice; Kilik has always been at home home at the Proving Grounds; and Nightmare seems appropriately situated in the new ambigously nefarious-looking location in Ostrheinsburg Castle--but most characters don't seem to fit anywhere in particular, even if certain stages suite better than others.

Well, importing new stages across different engines and platforms would not really save them as much time as you may be thinking. Some assets can be re-used, but rendering them such that they look tonally consistent with the rest of the game as constructed in the present engine would actually arguably end up being more work than starting from scratch, particularly as they would have to upres everything without making it look like crap. Beyond that, fully half or more of the locations in SCIV and SCV would just not make sense for SCVI's narrative. I think it could all just come off as ill-fitting to SCVI. But that said, I really do think stage design for the franchise hit it's zenith in SCIII and SCIV, so I'd be thrilled to see some of those stages return. Thesmophoros' Imperial Garden? You bet. Phantom Pavillion? Hell yeah. Sailor's Rest? Oh baby!
Not necessarily true at least in terms of upresing, sc6 stages are largely lower res than they were on sc4/5 engine. If you look closely there are a lot of poorly done textures on sc6 stages which is made up for with better lighting.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
Not necessarily true at least in terms of upresing, sc6 stages are largely lower res than they were on sc4/5 engine. If you look closely there are a lot of poorly done textures on sc6 stages which is made up for with better lighting.
Yes, that's true. The textures are very blurry in VI--though I do think this was done intentionally for loading and performance reasons. But you'd still need to do extensive image manipulation on any backdrop layers especially in order to port any stage from an earlier game into the new engine. Stages are made out of more assets (objects and textures) than are characters, and you can't just drop them as one element into a new game; everything has to be re-scaled, aligned, and made to work with the engine's new approach to positioning, contouring, luminosity, and numerous other factors. I'd be surprised, honestly, if porting a stage was even a wash with starting from scratch: it probably would be more labour intensive, really. And at the end of the day, the style variance would be glaring in almost all cases.
 
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LisaK

[13] Hero
I suppose we can assume that Maxi is at home in Indian Port, given he is pirate?
I understand what you mean, but in the case of Maxi we can say for sure that he has a connection to the Indian Port because of his profile.
SC Harbour of Souls: For Maxi this gray sea became a place of destiny where his sworn brother Kyam and shipmates were massacred.
SC III Indian Port: It was here that Maxi and Kilik met four years ago. Maxi, together with Kilik, headed west to avenge his crew, who had been wiped out in a sudden attack by a strange horde monsters.
Someone who has never played could assume that stage is from Cervantes, as you mentioned "he is a pirate", but for those who play for years probably associate Indian Port :(6): Maxi | The Adrian :(6): Cervantes.
So that's what I mean, if it's to give a generic stage, why not something in Japan, China or Korea.
 

LostSoul_83

[07] Duelist
I understand what you mean, but in the case of Maxi we can say for sure that he has a connection to the Indian Port because of his profile.


Someone who has never played could assume that stage is from Cervantes, as you mentioned "he is a pirate", but for those who play for years probably associate Indian Port :(6): Maxi | The Adrian :(6): Cervantes.
So that's what I mean, if it's to give a generic stage, why not something in Japan, China or Korea.
Yeah that's something I really miss from the prior games. Having a couple of very oriental style stages. Especially the setsuka stage from 3/4 with the cherry blossom and surrounding temples.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
I understand what you mean, but in the case of Maxi we can say for sure that he has a connection to the Indian Port because of his profile.

Someone who has never played could assume that stage is from Cervantes, as you mentioned "he is a pirate", but for those who play for years probably associate Indian Port :(6): Maxi | The Adrian :(6): Cervantes.
So that's what I mean, if it's to give a generic stage, why not something in Japan, China or Korea.
Yeah, I thought I recalled some firm link between the earlier version of that map and Maxi (and if nothing else, it features prominently in his presence in Libra), but my post was already ginormous, so I had to draw the line on details somewhere. :) Meanwhile, the lack of the Adrian, or any other ship at sea stage, is a massive oversight in and of itself.

And I totally agree about the dearth of stages with clear Asian thematics; some sort of Chinese imperial garden, a Japanese pavilion, mountain fortress or temple, Korean dojo or hall, and/or Southeast Asian marsh or courtyard definitely should have been one of the default maps to be included first here. In any previous game, thee or four of those archetypes were included at a minimum. SCIII had no fewer than 12 stages that clearly were located in either Asia or Asia Minor. Instead, what do we have here? Two stages--two!!--that are located in Asia, and one of them we only know is positioned there because 'Silk Road' is in the name; it's just a featureless square of dirt with virtually no detail or activity in it. Ugh. The stage selection has got to be the single most under-baked core feature of this game.
Yeah that's something I really miss from the prior games. Having a couple of very oriental style stages. Especially the setsuka stage from 3/4 with the cherry blossom and surrounding temples.
Jurakudai Villa. There's a third version of it in Broken Destiny as well; each of the three is set in a different season and at a different time of day--it's just begging for a fourth iteration.

@TresDias, I demand you bow to peer pressure and change your like of FluffyQuack's last post to a Cassie/love emote...or face the consequences... :sc2cas1: :sc2cas2: :sc2cas3::sc4cas1: ;D
 
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Starringrole

[08] Mercenary
I think probably they do have the files for SCII and forward, but I doubt they do for SCI and SE, so the best they can do for those is a straight port (which with regard to SCI, they did previously, on XBOX 360), unless they want to just outright remake them. Assets from games in those eras were very rarely preserved as individual asset files; indeed, if not for the fact that Project Soul were in a habit of re-using their assets for later games, it's probable that they wouldn't even have the assets for SCII (and thus would not have gotten SCII:HDO) since by that point in time, most companies were not in the habit of archiving their assets.
Perhaps, I mean I'm not going to enforce Soulcalibur 1 and SouBlade if they've truly lost the files, but regardless these entries should not be problematic assuming they are archived. For a fighter you've got to keep in mind Soulcalibur was always relatively ahead in a few aspects visually back then so yet again visuals aren't too big a problem and they can preserve its identity.
The Xbox 360 port of Soulcalibur 1 actually has alterations and cut content. I Believe due to microsoft enforcing a file size restriction on "Arcade games" during the period this was ported.

Due to the microsoft thing however, I am believing Soulcalibur 1 has been preserved, I actually think Soulblade may very well the lost one.

But you're still massively under-appreciating how much work this would be, if we're talking about a true remaster and not a port. Because no, SCII:HDO is not just a straight port of SCII vanilla running on better hardware than was available a the time.
I actually think the opposite, I just decided to put it to the test and the Soulcalibur 2 remaster isn't really an enhancement.
The models seem to be 1:1
The textures seemed to be based of the Xbox original/Gamecube ports. I'd wager the differences we see is due to things such as saturation or contrast.
However, the UI seems to be what has legitimately been enhanced with the remaster port, this includes fonts of course.

I'd potentially need to look around some more or even open up some more versions of the ports myself (PAL vs NTSC) and check if there are further visual differences but the remaster doesn't seem to be anything more than netplay and badly made shine which we would have been better without.
Perhaps the shine could be attributed to one of the other versions of the game and isn't even part of the remaster exclusively which is why I'd need to check out some more versions.

So I would pretty much say on a personal note, I do think SC2:HDO is a vanilla port running better hardware mostly, with the best version of the assets from the ports taken and combined into one. The enhancements are insignificant on the textures (from a light analysis on the textures if they can even be considered different), perhaps looking at other parts of the game though there was more work? I'll have to take a look at that too since my comparison wasn't checking everything.

If an HD remaster were as simple as that, the remaster market would be fifty times larger than it is. I reiterate: remastering 5-9 games would be massive undertaking that they could not have any realistic hope of recouping their costs on. It's a fantastic daydream: I've indulged in it myself far more times than any adult can reasonably justify. But I can recognize it for being just that: a daydream.
Not quite, remasters have done the act of simply running on better hardware before although if they don't enhance assets sometimes they throw in new effects, there's also the case where they simply revise the textures through a noise reduction instead of legitimate upgrades. I've definitely witnessed it and it seems to be the case to some extent very literally with SC2. It was not remastered on the level of FFX|X-2 remaster which had many of its textures completely remade without the source and the models themselves either being entirely new or highly dolled up versions of the old models.
If they took the approach of FFX|X-2 then I would say its a huge undertaking for sure, but to me it doesn't seem to be the case nor does it seem necessary they take it that far.

Soulblade may very well be a lost cause
Soulcalibur 1 We may assume there's a more contemporary in house variant. (Netplay must be added)
Soulcalibur 2 We know for sure has been done and has a contemporary variant. (Netplay somewhat done in a sense?)
Soulcalibur 3 has no contemporary variant that we know of so far, but it has enhanced visuals from the arcade edition which is a starting point. (Netplay)
Soulcalibur 4 Isn't necessary to enhance, the port process is the primary objective with potentially prettier effects.
Soulcalibur 5 Isn't necessary to enhance, the port process is the primary objective with potentially prettier effects.

We're left with with SB, SC1, SC3 being the REAL chore.
I understand that regardless it is a big undertaking but, its certainly not something that isn't feasible, this is simply a fighting game nothing more.
This is assuming we can accept remasters on the level that SC2 was, which isn't bad but wasn't huge to do either from a visual standpoint at least.

FFX|X-2 completely remade virtually every single texture, completely new visuals for the UI an arranged soundtrack and updated character models with international release exclusive content added, I'd argue a far bigger chore. Though Square may be more financially capable I suppose, its still quite a bit extra. That and honestly, Soulcalibur could just be remastered 1 by one, though I suppose we are talking more for in the form of a collection to be fair.

Now that I can certainly agree with: I'd happily buy any re-release of any mainline game in the series, even if the port had no graphics upgrade or online capability: I'd buy each for twenty to thirty dollars (or pounds) apiece just for the convenience of having them all on one current generation machine. But I'm not the average consumer. If they re-released 5-9 games in one compendium, they couldn't charge much more than $60, just because of how the market for digital re-releases works. That's just not remotely enough for them to turn a profit, even without a graphical upgrade or online capability (and having those features absent would drastically reduce the number of people willing to buy the product at any given pricepoint).

Even getting a game to emulate and run bug free on contemporary systems is a cost in itself, nevermind mixing in netcode and matchmaking for online play, graphical updates and all the other bells and whistles expected of a compilation. Now, don't get me wrong, if they did make a nine game compilation complete with online capacity and upgraded visuals for each entry, I'd pay $300 for it. They couldn't beat me off with a stick as I tried to stuff the cash into their pockets, tears of joy streaming down my face. But again, I don't there's enough people like me to even begin justifying such an effort.
Despite us potentially not representing the average consumer which I very much agree with, I do think as a fan base Soulcalibur is solid enough to get the sales going for remasters among fans to be good enough. There's also the fact that even the average gamer isn't exactly going to look at it and think "its worse than current day games", its remasters. Nowadays its easier in the very current period we are in to try and make the most of remakes and remasters too. I'm sure some people who aren't even dedicated would go for it.

Sadly in truth, I can not speak to for the porting process or netplay, especially the damn netplay.
I've had some experience with some things regarding the whole idea of "porting" but I'm not going to act like I know the nitty gritty with my small experience on porting. I definitely don't think the porting process would be hellish assuming preservation is all well and good however, but yet again I'm not too deep in with this.
Netplay might be a far cry though... I can't comment or even begin to speculate.

I myself would be trying to assault them with my money to get my hands on it however!

But no one has gotten their "own" stage in SCVI
Indian Port - Maxi
Shrine of Eurydice - Sophitia
Windswept Plains - Talim
Snow-Capped Showdown - Groh
Master Swordsman's Cave - Kilik
Astral Chaos - Inferno
Ostrheinsburg Castle - Nightmare
Cursed Moonlit Woods - Raphael/Amy
Sunken Desert Ruins - Hwang/Lizardman/Voldo/Mina (Not 100% sure)
Kunpaetku Temple - Asteroth
As you said though, the stages are far more vague in this game and less personal to the characters, its a pity we didn't get more as I like them along side our more specific older ones...

Well, importing new stages across different engines and platforms would not really save them as much time as you may be thinking.
The engines aren't really the problem in this instance thankfully, unless they've lost the assets in some VERY different format. They're definitely not tragic due to engine though.

Some assets can be re-used, but rendering them such that they look tonally consistent with the rest of the game as constructed in the present engine would actually arguably end up being more work than starting from scratch, particularly as they would have to upres everything without making it look like crap.
The backgrounds would be the big problem, I don't really recall but mesh wise I believe SC4 and SC5 were quite a bit less than SC6, so the background would have to be done up, but the main stage and nearby pieces could almost be kept the same in some stages I'd say.
The textures might be a headache, but having the stage shape itself be almost done is far closer than 0% instantly.
In all fairness they could just wipe the textures and start those from scratch, I don't really know how they'd most desire to approach it.

I don't think this is a case where starting from scratch would be easier, at least not always, there's definitely some stages that are very well easier to just upgrade from.

Beyond that, fully half or more of the locations in SCIV and SCV would just not make sense for SCVI's narrative. I think it could all just come off as ill-fitting to SCVI.
SC6 is a celebration, I don't think we should be concerned with the narrative impact of pretty stages, I certainly wouldn't care as long as they did it.
They would be ill fit to SC6 assuming they were left dark and moody, but if they just made them vibrant and perky they wouldn't clash much. I mean take a look at SC6 already, the character models are literally all recycled with the prime of their enhancements literally being the textures.


But that said, I really do think stage design for the franchise hit it's zenith in SCIII and SCIV, so I'd be thrilled to see some of those stages return. Thesmophoros' Imperial Garden? You bet. Phantom Pavillion? Hell yeah. Sailor's Rest? Oh baby!
Oh don't get me started, there's some stages I want really want back, especially SC3, I adore the cathedral stage so much, its gorgeous! I'd kill for Sailors rest and Thesmorphoros' Imperial Garden too. I honestly want in particular Distant Marsh!
TLDR: I don't think porting is a huge process (in terms of too much for them to do) and I don't think visual upgrades really need be considered when looking at SC2 which I don't believe received anything to costly. I think it would be a fair profit too. But perhaps I am being delusional too.

Yes, that's true. The textures are very blurry in VI--though I do think this was done intentionally for loading and performance reasons.
I haven't honestly checked the stage textures or anything like that for SC6 in particular but if I'm correct SC6 is approaching things somewhat similar to Overwatch does currently. E.g. everything looks good due to pretty lighting and effects and outside of its intended environment its looks awful or simply much lower quality.

Though I just don't know entirely, I just believe the approach is the same?


Now for anyone who cares!
Soulcalibur 2 Playstation 2 (NTSC)
Excuse these pictures, the PS2 ones I don't believe I got rendered correctly at all.


Soulcalibur 2 Xbox one X (Xbox 360 Remaster)
These should be just fine.


Soulcalibur 2 Gamecube (NTSC version?)
I believe these should be accurate.


Also bonus SC3 picture!
 
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FluffyQuack

[14] Master
So I would pretty much say on a personal note, I do think SC2:HDO is a vanilla port running better hardware mostly, with the best version of the assets from the ports taken and combined into one. The enhancements are insignificant on the textures (from a light analysis on the textures if they can even be considered different), perhaps looking at other parts of the game though there was more work? I'll have to take a look at that too since my comparison wasn't checking everything.
I can remember looking into this when SC2: HD got released. It's actually an entirely different engine. I can't remember the name of the engine, but I wanna say it's owned by the studio Namco contracted to do the port. I'm betting they did that because they figured it would be easier to port over the gameplay code to another engine than getting the SC2 source code running on 360/PS3, but I could be wrong.

There are many subtle differences in lighting and shading between the old and new versions.

GC:


360:


Everything is a lot brighter in general. Cassandra's stockings are super shiny.

GC:


360:


Taki's hair is suddenly super shiny. And the unique shading on Ivy's outfit is replaced with a more generic-looking shiny effect.
 
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Starringrole

[08] Mercenary
I can remember looking into this when SC2: HD got released. It's actually an entirely different engine. I can't remember the name of the engine, but I wanna say it's owned by the studio Namco contracted to do the port. I'm betting they did that because they figured it would be easier to port over the gameplay code to another engine than getting the SC2 source code running on 360/PS3, but I could be wrong.

The are many subtle differences in lighting and shading between the old and new versions.

GC:


360:


Everything is a lot brighter in general. Cassandra's stockings are super shiny.

GC:


360:


Taki's hair is suddenly super shiny. And the unique shading on Ivy's outfit is replaced with a more generic-looking shiny effect.
That's actually interesting! I noticed the lighting differences but assumed that something on a completely different side of world was happening with it.
That would make a lot of sense.

In regards to the design I actually think that's how the models were altered in the remaster sadly? I believe they were just set very intensely on the remaster, unless the engine on its own just accentuated it heavily somehow? That would seem a little peculiar to me.

As for why they changed the engine I'm not entirely sure on a personal note, I believe the cancelled TR(1-3) from what would be the PS1 era used the original engine but with a band aid basically, I assume the change with Soulcalibur could have been related performance possibly since its a fighter on a new console? I suppose a possibility was to do with the preservation the game by having it run on a more modern engine too perhaps.
That or just in general compatibility, I think FFX|X-2 did something similar?
 
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HackNslash

[07] Duelist
Well, that arguably is exactly the reason why the game actually turned out good to begin with, so I personally can't hate the approach as a whole even if it has some negative sides to it here and there.
I would disagree And it speaks volumes when Samsho who’s been in a tomb for how many years, comes back and not only addresses its fan base but is also clear about their marketing strategy to its consumers.
In an age where that relationship between DLC and consumer is abused.

But the biggest problem I have is the disregard for the western player base.
At the end of the day it’s a business and if they want to be successful they have to change their approach.

Without jumping too much out of context it would be the same as a person walking into a business and being treated not horribly but disrespectfully because you aren’t a frequent customer.

That is not how you do business, like AT ALL.

It is so disappointing the amount of videos I’ve watched with pro players supporting this title (even the lengths to what Kayane went to).

Just for their concerns to be clumped into a “foreigners” opinion.

These “Foreigners” lab the shit out of this game make YouTube videos, stream the content, create discord’s, create tech, enter and support local tournaments etc.

And they aren’t important?!!

That is MAD disrespectful, it’s bad PR, thoughtless community support and plainly just bad business.

They lost most of their casual base by ripping them off with CAS parts now they’re sabotaging the relationship with western hardcore enthusiasts and pros by telling us they don’t -need- to listen.

TRASH. They need to do better.
 

lightcycle

[10] Knight
Wait what's up on the Xbox? I've been playing on there problem free so far?
The current issues I keep witness is crashes when using the characters main colours (1P 2P 3P 4P)
Casual room search often just stands there spinning without finding anything in both region choices, could be that there really isn't anyone playing but that would mean this game has died down way faster than SC5. When there are rooms to be found the game just dumps us in a random room instead of showing a list of search results to choose from.
There are also still occasional network errors, and the issue were a new match may start in a room before all players have returned to lobby from previous match.
 

Crash X

[13] Hero
I would disagree And it speaks volumes when Samsho who’s been in a tomb for how many years, comes back and not only addresses its fan base but is also clear about their marketing strategy to its consumers.
In an age where that relationship between DLC and consumer is abused.

But the biggest problem I have is the disregard for the western player base.
At the end of the day it’s a business and if they want to be successful they have to change their approach.

Without jumping too much out of context it would be the same as a person walking into a business and being treated not horribly but disrespectfully because you aren’t a frequent customer.

That is not how you do business, like AT ALL.

It is so disappointing the amount of videos I’ve watched with pro players supporting this title (even the lengths to what Kayane went to).

Just for their concerns to be clumped into a “foreigners” opinion.

These “Foreigners” lab the shit out of this game make YouTube videos, stream the content, create discord’s, create tech, enter and support local tournaments etc.

And they aren’t important?!!

That is MAD disrespectful, it’s bad PR, thoughtless community support and plainly just bad business.

They lost most of their casual base by ripping them off with CAS parts now they’re sabotaging the relationship with western hardcore enthusiasts and pros by telling us they don’t -need- to listen.

TRASH. They need to do better.
I’ll bet many Nightmare players were angered at them laughing off the idea of giving him an i12 (which is what many of his players have been asking for) because “it doesn’t fit his playstyle.” Yet they buffed Mina’s close range game months ago when that’s not her area of play.

I’m convinced that they just have almost no clue about what they’re doing at this point.
 

sytus

[13] Hero
Apparently it's to do with his revenge mechanic which is what Nightmare is built around. Give Nightmare a i12 and you'll have to nerf the fuck out of it completely changing his design philosophy.
 

Crash X

[13] Hero
Even then his revenge has faults in it. It gets shut down by lows, grabs, BA’s, UA’s, and it’s damage threshold. And an i12 wouldn’t really be that bad on a move such as his 4B.
 

FluffyQuack

[14] Master
That's actually interesting! I noticed the lighting differences but assumed that something on a completely different side of world was happening with it.
That would make a lot of sense.

In regards to the design I actually think that's how the models were altered in the remaster sadly? I believe they were just set very intensely on the remaster, unless the engine on its own just accentuated it heavily somehow? That would seem a little peculiar to me.

As for why they changed the engine I'm not entirely sure on a personal note, I believe the cancelled TR(1-3) from what would be the PS1 era used the original engine but with a band aid basically, I assume the change with Soulcalibur could have been related performance possibly since its a fighter on a new console? I suppose a possibility was to do with the preservation the game by having it run on a more modern engine too perhaps.
That or just in general compatibility, I think FFX|X-2 did something similar?
Not sure what you mean by "design" but I'm very certain the models and textures are the same. The differences in lighting and shading must be due to mistakes or them unable to replicate certain effects the exact same way (hardware features and APIs can be entirely different between systems, so they can't re-use the same rendering code). As an example (though this has nothing to do with hardware), you can look at SC6. SC6 uses similar hair meshes and textures as SC4/5, but due to how the rendering works (deferred rendering) they can't easily render the alpha on the hair textures, so it gets clamped to binary values and thus ends up looking completely different.
 

HackNslash

[07] Duelist
Apparently it's to do with his revenge mechanic which is what Nightmare is built around. Give Nightmare a i12 and you'll have to nerf the fuck out of it completely changing his design philosophy.
I totally understand that and while NM players do find it difficult to deal with pressure without a decent i12 his revenge and terror charge mechanism does help a hell of a lot.
Maybe a review on his design is needed to give NM players inspiration to think differently.

I do agree with @Crash X regarding buffing Mina’s short range being a stupid choice.
She comes off as very cheap there is no point in trying to legitimatise her now.
She has a weakness for a reason and that’s what PS have to be careful of, is buffing everyone’s weaknesses.

I’m genuinely worried because the GI nerf is a clear example of them not knowing what they want from this title.
and the fact most people don’t like RE but they convince themselves it’s not a bad thing when that mechanic clearly favours some characters and not others.

As for Azwel I’m sure if he had a weapon indicator he wouldn’t get away with half the bullshit he pulls off.
They could at least do that if they love the character so much to deem default tournament winner “sufficiently powerful”
 

sytus

[13] Hero
As for Azwel I’m sure if he had a weapon indicator he wouldn’t get away with half the bullshit he pulls off.
Weapon indicator is the stance transition, you've got to keep a mental image of his stances to know what options are only available to him at that point in time and it's not as if Azwel player's are any less in the dark than their opponents, it works both ways. People are only upset over Azwel because he's unorthodox, once you adapt you will have a much easier time.