Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

[DanteSC3]

Well, SoulCalibur VI seems to possibly be trying to get rid of Rock, as if he doesn't come back in season three, I have my doubts of him returning for SoulCalibur VII, and then they would have met their goal from SoulCalibur II for Astaroth to take over his role. And then there's Aeon, if he doesn't return in season three, then I don't see us getting anything more than Lizardmen creations from here on out... And I can't really believe they're possibly cutting Rock and Aeon out, it's just as upsetting to me as Cassandra and Setsuka may have been for some of you guys. I'm happy that Hwang is getting a second chance, at least, but if that ultimately ousts Yun-seong, for whatever reason, then that would be equally sad. And then there's Li Long... poor guy.

 

[Soul]

Lets not jump to conclusions and out characters from SCVII before it's even a thing.

 

[Crash X]

I must echo @Crash X on this, because with more than half of SCIV’s stages being either random castle locales or a "Star Wars" docking bay -- and the remainder being some version of barely illuminated/illuminated only by fire/dark as anaerobic sludge -- it strikes me as absurd to consider it anywhere near the level of SCIII's assortment, popping with color and variety as it is.


Masuo indeed says it was declared back then that "Cassandra will not appear in the series anymore."

Fixed.

 

[Rusted Blade]

I must echo @Crash X on this, because with more than half of SCV's stages being either random castle locales or a "Star Wars" docking bay -- and the remainder being some version of barely illuminated/illuminated only by fire/dark as anaerobic sludge -- it strikes me as absurd to consider it anywhere near the level of SCIII's assortment, popping with color and variety as it is.

I'll grant you that two Star wars stages would have been more than sufficient, but there's only two castles stages (counting the raft stage), and I'm going to push back on the dark argument: only two (maybe four, depending on how you define it) stages that have a dark atmosphere. In fact, SCIV is probably the brightest lit game in the series in terms of stages: not just in terms of 1) the number of maps that take place in full daylight or 2) the ambient light in even those that don't, but also 3) the contrast on the surface textures themselves. It's certainly at least tied with any previous game in the series in that regard, I would argue: Sailor's Rest, Thesmophoros Imperial Garden, Wolfkrone Monument, Distant Marsh, Grand Labyrinth, Hall of the Warrior God, Jyurakudai Villa, Ostrheinsburg Castle (Twilight), all three Star Wars levels, all four Tower of Rememberance levels, and Ice Coffin of the Sleeping Ancient are all pretty bright or at least not particularly dark compared to traditional inside/night stages. Only Egyptian Temple, Kunpaektu Shrine, Ostrheinsburg Throne Room, and Phantom Pavillion can be described as ambiently dark, and only really the last two of those are oppressively so (by design).

Masuo indeed says it was declared back then that "Cassandra will not appear in the series anymore."

Combined with the "things that should not be spoken of" comment, it seems as if maybe we're finally see the first public discourse, oblique and brief though the shade may be, suggesting that some of the design choices for SCV (vis-a-vis the character selection in particular) were as divisive among the veteran developers as it was among the veteran players. I guess Daishi's turn at the helm being the better part of a decade out now is enough time for at least some to feel they can at least hint at what were probably substantial frustrations at the time as Mr. Street Fighter sidelined their previous work for Teen Soul Force.

 

[DanteSC3]

Lets not jump to conclusions and out characters from SCVII before it's even a thing.

I agree with your sentiment, I'm just reading the writing on the wall, really. SoulCalibur VI was the return to the stage of history, and them coming back later doesn't make much sense. If Hwang wasn't coming as DLC, his hopes were practically dashed moving forward, too, as we'd just return to Yun-seong and keep leaving Hwang behind with Li Long. Rock and Aeon are tertiary characters at best with regards to both the narrative and their movesets. We could argue back and forth about why Rock and Aeon are or aren't unique, and they could certainly be made more unique by the current vision of character design, to set them apart from Astaroth and Sophitia/Cassandra, but their popularity isn't so great that it would massively impact the series if they never made it back, like it or not. I'd love to see them back, but I can't hope to see them back, not with the current flow of events, at least.

Edit/Addendum: And Li Long is long since dead and buried; there's really no denying that. It would take a miracle for him to get a revival at this point.

 

[LisaK]

I'm happy that Hwang is getting a second chance, at least, but if that ultimately ousts Yun-seong, for whatever reason, then that would be equally sad.

I can see how sad you and Hayate are going to be..

Spoiler: You & Hayate:

 

[Crash X]

@DanteSC3 Stahp makin’ me cry about Aeon’s chances. I need muh Scaly King of 66A back. :’(

 

[Rusted Blade]

I agree with your sentiment, I'm just reading the writing on the wall, really.

~cough~ More like writing your predictions on the window of the train long before it has brought us close enough to make a good guess as to what is being prepared. No one thing that you say above is necessarily wrong, but you do tend to get way too carried away with your predictions based on your synthesis of those individual points. Characters are frequently dropped for a game or two, but few of them go away for good unless they were licensed IP. I think predicting that Aeon and Rock will never show up again if they don't in this game is not just unlikely to bear out, but even a little histrionic.

I mean, literally no main roster character with their own style has ever disappeared for more than two main series entires in a row to date, right? I'll grant you, I think Li long may be about to break that streak, but still, in general, this is how the rotation works. And as the total collection of characters grows, it's going to be harder and harder to get each character back in consistently. But it doesn't mean they are likely to be gone forever. It just means that the devs have realistic constraints on how many characters can be added in a given entry.

 

[KarotConCarne]

All of my YES!

 

[TresDias]

I'll grant you that two Star wars stages would have been more than sufficient, but there's only two castles stages

Castle, tower, whatever -- there's a lot of fortress stages. =P

 

[Rusted Blade]

Castle, tower, whatever -- there's a lot of fortress stages. =P

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I suppose. But most of those are pretty great stages, and the overall variety is still great and leans more towards the outside side of things. I will say that one thing that stood out to me as lacking in IV's stages is that very few of them have a strong Asian vibe, which is kind of a notable gap.

 

[DanteSC3]

I mean, literally no main roster character with their own style has ever disappeared for more than two main series entires in a row to date, right?

If you consider Edge Master the "mimic" style, then he was gone from SoulCalibur II-IV, so he missed three games. SoulCalibur II had Charade, and SoulCalibur III had Olcadan, so we didn't not have a mimic except for SoulCalibur IV (and now SoulCalibur VI), but if we're talking Edge Master the character, the mimic, then he would apply, otherwise yes, it's just Li Long, unless you claimed that Maxi was the natural evolution of his style from SoulBlade. Or it could be both Hwang and Li Long, if you don't count their appearance in SoulCalibur III as truly valid, considering they're practically treating their Arcade Edition variants like they never existed, unless Hwang proves that notion incorrect.

in general, this is how the rotation works

I disagree with this, though. SoulCalibur V is the only reason the "rotation" exists, at least for SoulCalibur. Historically, prior to SoulCalibur V (except for SoulCalibur II, where an attempt was made, before the fans said no and demanded the return of the full cast for the home release -- after that, they gave up on the idea, except what I'm about to note), everyone was kept, more or less, with a few new added per game. The only characters you could even argue have a rotation would be Hwang, and possibly Aeon and Rock. Those three are the only ones subject to any kind of will they/won't they prior to SoulCalibur V, with the three of them being nameless NPCs in SoulCalibur II, then while Aeon and Rock were restored for SoulCalibur III, Hwang was made into a bonus character (with surprise Li Long!), and then didn't return after that, regardless of being fleshed out and differentiated from Yun-seong (Maxi) more than sufficiently in Arcade Edition, it was never even considered to bring him (them) into SoulCalibur IV, as we just learned today.

Edit: Fleshed out my last sentence a bit, for clarity.

 

[Rusted Blade]

If you consider Edge Master the "mimic" style

No, I thought it was pretty clear that the only reason I would add the phrase "with their own style" to that statement was specifically to exclude mimics and early game localization full-clones. "Mimic" is not a moveset--it's a gimmick to pad the select screen a little and give casuals an excuse for losing most of their matches. :P

Or it could be both Hwang and Li Long, if you don't count their appearance in SoulCalibur III as truly valid

Why would I do that? They have fully developed styles in the final version of that game, which is really the only serious version worth discussing in terms of the final count of fully developed movesets. So again, no main roster character with their own moveset has ever been omitted for more than two games to date, and it's quite frequent for most characters to disappear for a game or two at some point (only like, what, four or five characters have broken that trend and be in every game). Again, the more characters are added, the more likely larger breaks are to occur for some (that's just math and the realistic constraints on developers/productions). But jumping to doom and gloom predictions that this means the devs have decided to expunge said characters from the series is a silly overreaction and certainly nothing we have strong evidence to suspect.

I disagree with this, though. SoulCalibur V is the only reason the "rotation" exists, at least for SoulCalibur. Historically, prior to SoulCalibur V (except for SoulCalibur II, where an attempt was made, before the fans said no and demanded the return of the full cast for the home release -- after that, they gave up on the idea, except what I'm about to note), everyone was kept, more or less, with a few new added per game.

That's just not true. Characters were dropped between Soul Edge and Soulcalibur, Soulcalibur and Soulcalibur II, and Soulcalibur III and Soulcalibur IV. And again, if this has increased over time slightly (even excepting the outlier of SCV), that's just because there are realistic limitations in terms of budget, staff, and timetable and a roster that gets bigger and bigger just can't be fully reconstituted every game. This is all completely normal, so far. Again, I do think it's likely Li Long is going to break the trend and be the first main roster character to be ignored for three mainline games running, but it had to happen sooner or later. Aeon and Rock will be back--I'd give you good odds on that bet if we were gambling real cash.

 

[RyujiSakamoto]

Well, SoulCalibur VI seems to possibly be trying to get rid of Rock, as if he doesn't come back in season three, I have my doubts of him returning for SoulCalibur VII, and then they would have met their goal from SoulCalibur II for Astaroth to take over his role.

Rock's role was successfully taken over by Astaroth in 1998....ever since he's just been a tertiary character. This is fine, but that doesn't mean he has to go away forever. My hope is that Rock can be DLC in SCVI and in future games. I think its too late for Rock to be salvaged into his own "thing" unless Project Soul does drastic work on him.

Lizardman is his own thing, so idk what to tell you about him.

Then Hwang.... I only ever wanted him to have a chance. If he doesn't get into SCVI then he will simply never return period. I think if he's truly coming Project Soul will do good by him, but he will forever be "DLC tier" character status. I don't think you can shake off 4 main game absences( 2 without his style) and become part of the roster like that....Yun-Seong will be the base roster character in SC7 after he's added in Season 3.

 

[DanteSC3]

Mimics/SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition

These were probing points to see what your standards were.

That's just not true. Characters were dropped between Soul Edge and Soulcalibur, Soulcalibur and Soulcalibur II, and Soulcalibur III and Soulcalibur IV.

SoulBlade lost Li Long, otherwise everyone returned. SoulCalibur only lost Hwang, Aeon, and Rock if you don't consider Assassin, Lizardman, and Berserker to be their equals, otherwise everyone returned (unless you count the intermediary Arcade Edition, which originally lacked Sophitia and Seong Mi-na, and did in fact cut those three absolutely, but I ruled that out). Everyone returned to SoulCalibur III, no questions asked. Everyone returned to SoulCalibur IV too, except for Hwang and Li Long, who you could potentially see as "just bonus characters", which a good portion of players do, having never even come close to touching the Arcade Edition of SoulCalibur III. But I concede that point if you're calling SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition the definitive version.

The other folks who come and go are mimics, who you aren't counting, or one-offs like Necrid, Abyss, and the five girls from SoulCalibur IV. SoulCalibur V was the only game in the series to make severe cuts to the roster, to set any sort of precedent for doing such a thing, to set any sort of "rotation". That being said, even if you are using SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition as "SoulCalibur III", the only folks who have ever truly been cut from final build going from game to game, prior to SoulCalibur V, were Li Long and Hwang. That really doesn't do much to set any sort of pattern, when the vast majority stayed.

Aeon and Rock will be back--I'd give you good odds on that bet if we were gambling real cash.

I agree that they'll be back if we get a season three. I find it to be a harder sell if we don't get a season three for them to return in SoulCalibur VII.

 

[Klimat]

I think Season 3 is basically inevitable, but if I were to play devil's advocate and think of a theoretical scenario where Season 3 is not on the cards, I think this development will indeed spell doom for Rock to ever return to the series putting him straight into Li Long's boat. Aeon on the other hand I believe will be fine nonetheless as far as his SC7 chances go. Unlike Rock his moveset is much more developed and unique plus he even made it into SC5 despite all of the cuts SC5 had.

 

[WuHT]

Be careful when interpreting their responses so that it doesn't end up happening.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1296225909851054081

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omg she delete the tweet, anyways I save

Once you start putting names in your rumors, it isn't going to go over well.
The developers (at least out of professional courtesy) wouldn't normally throw one of their own under the bus.

 

[Frayhua]

Oh god. I can’t believe they would really ditch characters like Cassandra for...Pyrrha and Pat.

Possibly permanently if SC5 was a success. So many lost...

Thank god we have SCVI and Daishi is far away as possible

The final SCV patch was dumb for just nerfing Leixia's Double CE, but not nerfing actual OP characters like Pat(A+B:A+B), A. Pat(Double JFT DMG), Hilde (C2B Loop), & Viola(B+K(BE) getting buff like crazy & Lots of Jank).

I always knew Daishi wanted to make Pat super cool by giving him Setsuka's moveset. I knew Daishi was long gone after SCV was out for 2 years. I'm sorry for attacking the Talim Fanbase. I did that because I upset that Setsuka didn't make SCVI S1.

 

[Crash X]

The final SCV patch was dumb for just nerfing Leixia's Double CE, but not nerfing actual OP characters like Pat(A+B:A+B), A. Pat(Double JFT DMG), Hilde (C2B Loop), & Viola(B+K(BE) getting buff like crazy & Lots of Jank).

I always knew Daishi wanted to make Pat super cool by giving him Setsuka's moveset. I knew Daishi was long gone after SCV was out for 2 years. I'm sorry for attacking the Talim Fanbase. I did that because I upset that Setsuka didn't make SCVI S1.

Don’t forget about aPat’s 33B and Viola’s backgrab infinite.

 

[Frayhua]

Don’t forget about aPat’s 33B and Viola’s backgrab infinite.

Viola SET Back Grab Infinite was the most janky thing Viola had before being overbuffed. As for Setsuka's/A. Pat's CH 33B, it's easy to counter if it's being spammed. A good trade off a safe launcher that stuns on CH. In SCIII, Setsuka CH 33B ~ ag:B ~ bA ~ 33B was 1/2 life.