Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Frayhua said:
Viola SET Back Grab Infinite was the most janky thing Viola had before being overbuffed. As for Setsuka's/A. Pat's CH 33B, it's easy to counter if it's being spammed. A good trade off a safe launcher that stuns on CH. In SCIII, Setsuka CH 33B ~ ag:B ~ bA ~ 33B was 1/2 life.
Click to expand...
And even then, 33B had more than just that. It was also a mid ranged tracking vertical with okizeme ability. Topped with being able to act as a combo starter on both normal AND counter hit, all the while being safe on block, this move was no doubt among both their strongest tools. No wonder it got a tone down into SC6.
 
DanteSC3 said:
SoulBlade lost Li Long, otherwise everyone returned. SoulCalibur only lost Hwang, Aeon, and Rock if you don't consider Assassin, Lizardman, and Berserker to be their equals, otherwise everyone returned (unless you count the intermediary Arcade Edition, which originally lacked Sophitia and Seong Mi-na, and did in fact cut those three absolutely, but I ruled that out). Everyone returned to SoulCalibur III, no questions asked. Everyone returned to SoulCalibur IV too, except for Hwang and Li Long, who you could potentially see as "just bonus characters", which a good portion of players do, having never even come close to touching the Arcade Edition of SoulCalibur III. But I concede that point if you're calling SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition the definitive version.

The other folks who come and go are mimics, who you aren't counting, or one-offs like Necrid, Abyss, and the five girls from SoulCalibur IV. SoulCalibur V was the only game in the series to make severe cuts to the roster, to set any sort of precedent for doing such a thing, to set any sort of "rotation". That being said, even if you are using SoulCalibur III Arcade Edition as "SoulCalibur III", the only folks who have ever truly been cut from final build going from game to game, prior to SoulCalibur V, were Li Long and Hwang. That really doesn't do much to set any sort of pattern, when the vast majority stayed.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to keep going around in circles on this, with you essentially saying the same exact thing as I did, only with more sentences and rhetorical flourishes that make it seem as if this current situation is something abnormal. Here's what it comes down to: characters have disappeared for a game or two in the past and then shown up again, repeatedly. Even if Lizardman and Rock don't show up in a theoretical season three, that will still only be two games for each of them (and really maybe only one for Aeon, depending on how you look at it), and there's absolutely no reason to believe that means they are being purged from the series--certainly no indication from the devs whatsoever, and no hints otherwise to support your panicked "Oh my god, THE NOTHING has taken them! They're never coming baaaaaack!" conclusion. There's just zero reason to believe that's what is going on if they just happen to not make the cut in this game.

This is just simple math, my friend: an ever-increasing roster of potential characters + limitations on budget = an increasingly large (but variable) group of characters loses out each successive game. Literally every single long-running franchise in this genre goes through this. There is no mystery here, and no conclusions to be reached about the future of certain characters--they just didn't make the cut this time. There are four spots in the next season pass, even if it does happen (actually, realistically three as another guest is quite likely) and six pre-SCV characters to fill them, (even if we assume Viola isn't in play): Rock, Aeon, Yun-seong, Algol, Li Long, and Dampierre. A few characters are going to get left out in the cold, no matter how you slice it. That's just what happens in a franchise in this genre as the roster grows and grows with each sequential game. There's no reason to ascribe a more complicated motive or message to the absence of whoever gets left out this time than that--nor are there any reasonable conclusions to be made that this means the devs will never look to them again in the future. You're over-reaching with your conclusions...again.
 
Last edited:
Rusted Blade said:
This is just simple math, my friend: an ever-increasing roster of potential characters + limitations on budget = an increasingly large (but variable) group of characters loses out each successive game. Literally every single long-running franchise in this genre goes through this. There is no mystery here, and no conclusions to be reached about the future of certain characters--they just didn't make the cut this time. There are four spots in the next season pass, even if it does happen (actually, realistically three as another guest is quite likely) and six pre-SCV characters to fill them, (even if we assume Viola isn't in play): Rock, Aeon, Yun-seong, Algol, Li Long, and Dampierre. A few characters are going to get left out in the cold, no matter how you slice it. That's just what happens in a franchise in this genre as the roster grows and grows with each sequential game. There's no reason to ascribe a more complicated motive or message to the absence of whoever gets left out this time than that--nor are there any reasonable conclusions to be made that this means the devs will never look to them again in the future. You're over-reaching with your conclusions...again.
Click to expand...

I get the pragmatist outlook when it comes to vets but do you think it would be better, at this current point in time to be an optimist? As a Li Long fan I'm optimistic he'll make it in as the rest of the vets, all because fighting game content can be spread out annually at the fraction of the cost of the vanilla retail release. We are in new territory when it comes to fighting games, and we're kinda lucky that Soul Calibur has never had an enormous roster like all the other top fighters, so to have all golden age characters in one game isn't so outlandish.
 
@Rusted Blade I understand what you’re saying, but I still am not certain you’re seeing what I’m saying. If you are, it’s really not being made clear that you are. I don’t see us as saying the same things, because you’re making it sound like this is a normal thing that we’ve experienced over time, and it really isn’t. Before SoulCalibur V, there was no expectation that we would have to worry about characters not making it back to the next game. Now we do have that expectation, but the only reason that we do is that it’s “normal” now, that literally all fighting games are doing it. If you’re fine with that, and you seem to be, then that’s what it is and that’s the end of that. But we still are not saying the same things.

I’m speaking in the far more narrow view of only SoulCalibur, irrespective of the fighting game genre at large and the current practice of so many season passes to deliver the full product. We absolutely did not have this as a pattern before SoulCalibur V, in any respect, outside of Li Long, who you could argue was cut and replaced so early it was basically a given that he would not return, and Hwang, who mostly shared the same fate, except Hwang made it back to the first actual SoulCalibur, while Li Long did not, so he had that bit more of exposure to potentially make his comebacks more viable, but Yun-seong was still clearly the favorite for Project Soul and they seem resistant to reinstating Hwang, though they occasionally caved to appease fans. Literally everyone else, aside from those two, before SoulCalibur V, were on the roster to stay, always returning, because the fans would absolutely not tolerate it if anyone was cut. And you can even see this behavior with SoulCalibur VI, how rabid people are until their favorite character returns.

Then SoulCalibur V happened, with all its cuts, the time skip, the new generation, and then the game was incomplete, so it had a smorgasbord or reasons to actually be missing characters, ultimately being a failure in the bigger picture, mostly due to these cuts. This was a huge blow to the franchise that we’re just now getting over with SoulCalibur VI, and that might be the only justifiable reason why SoulCalibur VI is limited or incomplete in any way, shape, or form. But if we take it that SoulCalibur VI was successful enough to restore the good graces of the past, then there would be no reason, aside from the aforementioned “normal” that we are in now for the fighting game genre as a whole, that SoulCalibur VII couldn’t be expected to reflect the games before SoulCalibur V, in that every cast member who isn’t Li Long or Hwang is practically guaranteed to return, when it's all said and done. You can extend "when it's all said and done" to mean "after all the season passes are out", but frankly, I find this unacceptable for a variety of reasons, mostly because we're just expected to accept it as "normal" when we have a track record of it absolutely not being the case, and that's what I'm attempting to get across to you.

As far as the whole, "if Aeon and Rock don't come back in SoulCalibur VI, they're doomed to never come back for the future games" mantra is concerned, I'll admit it's a little bit crass, but I don't find it completely unreasonable. As I've shown, they've been on the proverbial chopping block, if anyone ever has, only just below Li Long and Hwang. We do have the ability to make Lizardmen custom characters now, which you, me, and other folks who appreciate what Aeon's moveset brings to the table, be it sword and shield, axe and shield, or dual axes, but beyond that, his lizardisms, that you just don't get by having an actual lizardman just emulating human styles (except maybe Voldo, but still, not even then...), but if we're coming from the stance of developers having an out, they absolutely do, and they've been using this ever since the game was launched. Aeon and Hwang were supposed to be launch characters, I remain convinced that to this day this was supposed to be the case, but they didn't make it out the door. They should have, in a perfect world, been given first dibs on DLC for the first season pass, but unfortunately, the pragmatic approach to marketing gave us Amy and Cassandra instead for season one, and then Hilde and Setsuka for season two.

Aeon is constantly handwaved by folks saying "you can just make him lololol" and Hwang gets lumped into the "he's just a more boring Yun-seong clone", among other things, so they got delayed and delayed and delayed. If we didn't have the leaks telling us Hwang was going to be our fourth for season two, then I would be firmly believing it would be Yun-seong instead, and Hwang would continue being left behind. But that we are getting Hwang next, it does instill some faith for me that he might not fade into obscurity this go-around, but even so, with our current "normal", the likely follow-up, if we believe in your train of thought anyway, is that Yun-seong will be base roster for SoulCalibur VII, and then we'll have to wait... again... and pay... again... for the privilege to play Hwang, and there is some justifiable outrage in this being the case, whether it's "normal" or not. If we keep having this upper and lower echelon of "worthy" folks for base roster and "unworthy" folks always needing to be DLC, it just isn't really good for morale in the fanbase. But getting back to Aeon, it seems like, as of the latest update even (the new story chapter for Grøh), they are more than content with Aeon's style just be represented by Lesser Lizardmen and calling it a day. So if we don't get him in season three, then it follows that they'll keep doing this, because they know they can.

As for Rock, the game itself illustrates how pointless Rock is, with Astaroth assimilating everything about him, even his name, apparently, because Rock is so unimportant that he's just "the White Giant". Long-time fans know that's just as well as saying "Rock", but the conscious decision to just not say Rock, not give him a cameo appearance like so many others (HAN-MYEONG GOT A CAMEO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD) is also quite indicative that they did not, in any capacity, plan to include Rock in SoulCalibur VI, and this game, being a retelling of the story we've had once before, deciding to omit a character from that narrative is a pretty big indicator, to me, that they did not plan on bringing Rock back for this go-around. If we do get Rock in a season three, it will only be for fan demand and for no other reason. And if that demand is high enough, and sales are well enough, then maybe he'd be able to return to SoulCalibur VII, otherwise, if that doesn't happen, then that's why I feel like he's just gone, like Li Long before him.

It is not my intention to keep dragging this out for any reason beyond just making my point clear. SoulCalibur VII could, if following in its predecessor's footsteps, launch with a full roster and no DLC characters. This is not a pipe dream, but a very real and possible reality. I'm not saying it's likely that it will, because of our "normal" state of affairs with the genre, but you seem to not get how/why the history of the franchise is on the side of the way I'm seeing it. At the end of the day, DLC has to sell, and the inherent problem with the "unworthy" characters being forced to DLC, is that they won't sell as well as others, for marketing reasons. So if Aeon and Rock, their position on the chopping block being what it is, don't make it into base game SoulCalibur VII, and were not DLC for SoulCalibur VI, then their chances to appear in the future games is slim to none, that's what I'm trying to get across. Season three will decide their fates, one way or the other. Yun-seong will likely return no matter what, and Algol being reintroduced is practically a given as well, and we will also eventually see Viola for sure, barring another story reset. Aeon and Rock, however, have no such guaranteed future, unless we get a season three and they're in it.
 
Early Setsuka SCVI concept designs:

Ef5_1FrUcAAZRck.jpg

Ef5_23OUMAA0S3w.jpg


My favorites are the first two from the left in the first image, and the middle two in the second image. God it would've been so cool if we had 2P costumes.
 
Last edited:
I actually find it surprising that we didn't get the second design in the first image. That feels more complete a design than the other seven, and believable for SoulCalibur VI's aesthetics. It's even black, for the mourner theme of her character arc.
 
Soul said:
Early Setsuka SCVI concept designs:

View attachment 78552
View attachment 78553

My favorites are the first two from the left in the first image, and the middle two in the second image. God it would've been so cool if we had 2P costumes.
Click to expand...
Whoa, the first four are all gorgeous! Kinda wish any of those or the second one in the second image would have made it. Just look how well-proportioned she can look without 12 gallon jugs in front of her...

It must be hard for developers to release concept art only to find the fans raving about designs they did NOT go with ^^°
 
Last edited:
SSfox said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1296760225253298179

This is so fitting, a bunny playboy skin in a medieval era game in an antique Egypt place.

This is the kind of nonsensical stuff i found annoying, but idk if it's a mod or what. this obviously wasn't a thing in SC2, it seems to be some behind the scene stuffs but not sure, glad it never make anyway.
Click to expand...
Looks like Hideo made it himself because there wasn’t a creation mode yet, just as a personal project.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back