Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

WuHT

Premium Moderator
whats the difference between a warhammer / war club / mace in game ?
Bludgeoning tool with a weighted end, ideally metal (or that clanging sound). I can't see them be any different other than being alternate weapon skins.

Ideally, Rock would have to return with entirely new grab animations, simply because Astaroth has so many:
• 2 Normal front grabs
• 1 special forward front grab
• 2 side grabs
• 2 back grabs
• 2 command grabs
• 2 grabs against crouchers
• jumping grab against croucher
• jumping grab against airborne
• standing grab against airborne x2
• crouching grab against grounded
• 2 crouching grab against standing
• 2 armored charging grab
• 2 armored charging grabs against crouchers

plus special SC followup grabs
One of the most important de-cloning steps is to have different grapple animations, and thats been largely done in the past

Hopefully if Rock returns, his grabs will incorporate his hammer more than just pure hand-to-hand grappling.
 

Rusted Blade

[13] Hero
whats the difference between a warhammer / war club / mace in game ?
Bludgeoning tool with a weighted end, ideally metal (or that clanging sound). I can't see them be any different other than being alternate weapon skins.

Ideally, Rock would have to return with entirely new grab animations, simply because Astaroth has so many:
• 2 Normal front grabs
• 1 special forward front grab
• 2 side grabs
• 2 back grabs
• 2 command grabs
• 2 grabs against crouchers
• jumping grab against croucher
• jumping grab against airborne
• standing grab against airborne x2
• crouching grab against grounded
• 2 crouching grab against standing
• 2 armored charging grab
• 2 armored charging grabs against crouchers

plus special SC followup grabs
One of the most important de-cloning steps is to have different grapple animations, and thats been largely done in the past

Hopefully if Rock returns, his grabs will incorporate his hammer more than just pure hand-to-hand grappling.
Two thumbs up for this. SCIV Rock was already moving in this direction, and I know the popular received wisdom was that he was low-ish tier in that game, but there was the odd player who found a way to leverage his grab/mix-up rythym to deal out massive damage and control the pacing of the match from the very first opening they managed to seize. I know, because one of them was my years-long practice partner and I have to tell you, at least for someone specializing in rushdown who wants that inertia for themselves, it could be a frustratingly effective approach. So making Rock a true grappler/mix-up artist would be a good way to go to distinguish him from Astaroth's niche in this outing.

Of course, throwing is absurdly difficult to utilize in this game--the recovery windows are just way too generous and the contextual opportunities set by frame traps so few and far between to be of consistent use, one just learns to avoid the impulse almost altogether--but it's not something that can't be engineered into a useful moveset with enough variations with different advantages and properties, allowing for throw and tech traps. I like the idea in the abstract anyway.
 

sytus

[14] Master
Ideally, Rock would have to return with entirely new grab animations, simply because Astaroth has so many:
Here are his moves, throws and strings exclusive to him. There are some moves in this list that Astaroth has, however the difference is how he gets to them which are all exclusive to Rock. At a guess I would say that Rock's current collection of exclusive moves in comparison to a fully fledged SC6 character is 30% complete. One thing I do want to see changed is his hellsweep to spin grounded opponents. The animation looks naff that I hope it gets replaced with a low punch instead, similar to King's or Gigas' snake edge.


 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Here are his moves, throws and strings exclusive to him. There are some moves in this list that Astaroth has, however the difference is how he gets to them which are all exclusive to Rock. At a guess I would say that Rock's current collection of exclusive moves in comparison to a fully fledged SC6 character is 30% complete. One thing I do want to see changed is his hellsweep to spin grounded opponents. The animation looks naff that I hope it gets replaced with a low punch instead, similar to King's or Gigas' snake edge.


solid detective work.

30% unique moves from prior games
20% shared moves with Astaroth (knees / basic kicks / RE ... etc)
50% new moves ? This is going to be very tough to pull off, unless they really trim down his command list. If you look at Setsuka (which I think is unanimously exceeded our expectations) she had about 2 dozen new animations
Other than RE, CE, and the clash A/B/K
• A+G
• 2nd hit of 4KA
• 66KK
• 3A+B
• 66A+B
bK
third A in AAA
third B in BBB
1B+KB
4B+K and all follow-ups
3KB
1A+B
1st and 2nd 6B+K
G+K
6B
third hit SC 22A+BA
66K
66B+KB
8B+KK
BT 2B+K
BT 2A+B
SC 1AAAAA
 
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Rusted Blade

[13] Hero

sytus

[14] Master
50% new moves ? This is going to be very tough to pull off, unless they really trim down his command list.
Considering what they did with Haohmaru, could pull inspiration from Tekken characters, plus all the moves they have already done that we know nothing about, I'm honestly not worried one bit. Don't forget that they can just add more moves later like they have been with the rest of the cast. I mean look at Groh who keeps on getting more and more fleshed out with new patches.

Wait, are you talking about this? Because, no pun intended (but happily embraced), that move is pretty clutch if you ask me!
Yeah that's the one. The move looks flaccid for such a manly man like Rock. Have a look at King's or Gigas' snake edge from Tekken 7 to get an idea what I would prefer to see, which is a low sweeping punch.
 
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Fredfredburger

[07] Duelist
What unique character mechanics (ie:Maxi's stars, Amy's roses, Zas' curse etc) would you give for the remaining characters not in SC6?

My idea for Aeon is based on his SC5 lore. In SC5, we learn that he gains abilities based on what he eats. My concept is that he will have certain bite moves that he must land during the match, maximum of 3. Each stage he gains new moves or some moves are enhanced. For example, during stage 3 he gains wing related moves.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
For Aeon specifically ?

1) He might have some emphasis on hp regeneration as the cold blooded reptilian warrior.
• It could be a variant of yoshi's meditation healing stance,
• just as a raw hp recovery bonus after bite-attack throws (sort of like Yoshi's life-drain grab)
• It could even be a resource expenditure that causes passive gradual hp regen (will be broken only once he takes damage)

2) I really hope he has tail whip attacks, but I don't know how a custom-character using his moveset will do? Maybe the tail becomes a "weapon" sort of like Yoshimitsu's flag banner thing. This way you could have a bunch of alt skins
• Lizard tail
• Clubbed tail (ankylosaurus)
• Spiked tail with thagomizer (stegosaurus)
• Split forked tail
• Snake-head tail
• Scorpion tail

3) I'm hoping his playstyle feels like a heavy hitter (SC5) more than a sophie-clone (SC4). His movements are sluggish but he can be surprisingly explosive with animalistic bursts of speed followed by recovery (something like nightmare's explosiveness tied to a sluggish body like a slower astaroth)
 
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Crash X

[14] Master
For Aeon specifically ?

1) He might have some emphasis on hp regeneration as the cold blooded reptilian warrior.
• It could be a variant of yoshi's meditation healing stance,
• just as a raw hp recovery bonus after bite-attack throws (sort of like Yoshi's life-drain grab)
• It could even be a resource expenditure that causes passive gradual hp regen (will be broken only once he takes damage)

2) I really hope he has tail whip attacks, but I don't know how a custom-character using his moveset will do? Maybe the tail becomes a "weapon" sort of like Yoshimitsu's flag banner thing. This way you could have a bunch of alt skins
• Lizard tail
• Clubbed tail (ankylosaurus)
• Spiked tail with thagomizer (stegosaurus)
• Split forked tail
• Snake-head tail
• Scorpion tail

3) I'm hoping his playstyle feels like a heavy hitter (SC5) more than a sophie-clone (SC4). His movements are sluggish but he can be surprisingly explosive with animalistic bursts of speed followed by recovery (something like nightmare's explosiveness tied to a sluggish body like a slower astaroth)
Do not forget about Aeon having among the strongest RO potential and ability to kill step with 66A in SCV. Two things I feel that he should carry over regardless of what fighting style they give him and would benefit his Lethal Hits.
 

Rusted Blade

[13] Hero
What unique character mechanics (ie:Maxi's stars, Amy's roses, Zas' curse etc) would you give for the remaining characters not in SC6?

My idea for Aeon is based on his SC5 lore. In SC5, we learn that he gains abilities based on what he eats. My concept is that he will have certain bite moves that he must land during the match, maximum of 3. Each stage he gains new moves or some moves are enhanced. For example, during stage 3 he gains wing related moves.
I really don't want anymore resource gimmicks for future characters, especially ones that lock actual moves behind them. If we have to then the way they're applied to Setsuka's moves are fine in that the resource acts as an extension buff.
I'm most assuredly in the same camp as Sytus on this one: I outright loathe the "do your chores and then we'll see about you playing with your whole moveset!" approach that has already infected the gameplay of this entry (often with regard to characters who already present some technical challenges. I really don't think we need one ounce more of this in the game. I've said in the past that it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to model Lizardman primarily on his earlier appearances in terms of tone (though obviously with a more robust and idiosyncratic moveset than he had in those games), but allow some of his more wild SCV Aeon moves (including possibly firebreath, not necessarily as keen on the wings) to be unlocked in Soul Charge. That's really the extent of the moveset gatekeeping that I'd like to see for him.

For Aeon specifically ?

1) He might have some emphasis on hp regeneration as the cold blooded reptilian warrior.
• It could be a variant of yoshi's meditation healing stance,
• just as a raw hp recovery bonus after bite-attack throws (sort of like Yoshi's life-drain grab)
• It could even be a resource expenditure that causes passive gradual hp regen (will be broken only once he takes damage)

2) I really hope he has tail whip attacks, but I don't know how a custom-character using his moveset will do? Maybe the tail becomes a "weapon" sort of like Yoshimitsu's flag banner thing. This way you could have a bunch of alt skins
• Lizard tail
• Clubbed tail (ankylosaurus)
• Spiked tail with thagomizer (stegosaurus)
• Split forked tail
• Snake-head tail
• Scorpion tail

3) I'm hoping his playstyle feels like a heavy hitter (SC5) more than a sophie-clone (SC4). His movements are sluggish but he can be surprisingly explosive with animalistic bursts of speed followed by recovery (something like nightmare's explosiveness tied to a sluggish body like a slower astaroth)
Do not forget about Aeon having among the strongest RO potential and ability to kill step with 66A in SCV. Two things I feel that he should carry over regardless of what fighting style they give him and would benefit his Lethal Hits.
I understand why SCV Aeon's moveset is somewhat controversial: in many respects it is the epitome of the issues that arose under Daishi's direction in terms of self-indulgently deconstructing the franchise's mechanics, mythos and tone in general, trying to make everything a little different and remake the wheel and put a unique stamp on the entry. But at the same time, it has to be said, Aeon in that game is a very interesting character with a well-defined niche: a very techy character who has a great selection of combos with damage that adds up quickly, but which are highly context sensitive and difficult to pull off. His wall combos in particular are just so much fun: I can't pretend to have ever put in time to utilize him appropriate in that game, but even jsut watching someone who had was entertainment in itself.

I can understand those who would have concerns about mixing in yet more of the classical street fighter/campcom/typical 2D fighter emphasis on comboing into a game in this franchise at a higher level of emphasis that is usually present in SC games, but I think the afore-mentioned timing and positioning constraints to initiate these combos and get the best out of them, combined with the demands of execution throughout, allowed this element to be fused into Aeon's moveset in such a way that didn't feel cheap or as entirely out of place as it might have otherwise. In short, this is a feature of the SCV moveset that I wouldn't mind seeing a return to, even if the actual particulars of the moves (including which weapons they utilize) are more visually in line with classic Lizardman. And in this respect, it's worth noting that only a few of those aforementioned crazy Aeon-SCV combos utilized the the mystical dragon moves (fire breath, wings, so forth).

As to the idea of regen, if they were to do something like this, I think it makes more sense to give a static portion of damage done with the bite as healed HP, rather than applying a permanent buff: there's just too much potential for unbalancing things and disrupting the flow of combat if you encourage one player to take a bite and then engage in keep-away/turtle-up hijinks in the back half of almost any given round. Besides, thematically, I think linking that regen to static amount of health return as a product of a specific amount of damage done would make more sense. Although...given the conceit of the game that nobody looks the worst for wear (other than their outfits and hair) at the end of any match of any Soulcalibur game, no matter how large the weapon that looked to be cleaving through them, I'm not sure the bite mechanic is a good aesthetic fit in any case: it might just strain the consistencies in what we are seeing even further, when, as fans of this series, our brains are already asked to do a lot of heavy lifting in terms of suspension of disbelief, as is.
 
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Ronin

[09] Warrior
Wonder how they'll change Rock's role after being used to make Astaroth? He should just save Bangoo already and meet the other cast. Who'd be the best for him to meet and to go after Cervantes too.
 

LisaK

[14] Master
There is no mention in his profile about any revenge against Cervantes. He goes to Europe and fights Sophitia, then he finds out that Bangoo has been kidnapped and defeat Aeon (Lizardman). as for Astaroth he only knows him during SC 3, when there were rumors about a "Black Giant" which resulted in the confrontation between the two, in which Rock almost dies, but that didn't stop him from going after Astaroth again in SC4. :sc1ast1:

Non-canon: he accompanied Cassandra to Ostrheinsburg but they were intercepted by Astaroth and his malfested 'valkyries'. (based on the SC 4 story mode, where in the Cassandra / Rock stories they end up 'traveling' together in chapter 2 in Osthreinsburg.) :sc4cas1:

We know that Cassandra managed to reach Sophitia but ended up at Astral Chaos, taking into account that Maxi was the one who destroyed Astaroth, I will say that maybe Rock ended up dying during SC 4. :sc2maxi1:

Something very interesting that Hilde's soldiers who were attacked by Durer in Hilde's Soul Chronicle are the same ones that accompanied Astaroth in SC4, Helmwige and Ortlinde, which would imply that instead of dying in the ambush they ended up becoming Durer's 'berserkers'. :sc4hil1:
 
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