1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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U go Maxx lol! EC NY is real at all times. We don't make up fibs to try and impose that where the best we take it

Everyone and their mother (Ceirnian, etc) thought I was all talk with the Kilik, GI'ing shit on reaction etc. NY peope prove shit and that's exactly what the fuck I did at Nats, NVGA and

Maxx ain't never lie cause if me, Ramon or Maxx ran into u at Evo u would be at the fucking bottom. Get shit straight!

Also for the record ur not even in my line of sight. Thugish is , Malek is, RTD is. Who or what the fuck is a KDZ?

Matter a fact I don't even wanna play ur scrubby ass. Gimme a First round challenge against Thugish, Ceirnian or something. U ain't even worth it.
 
Oh and for the people paying attention to ladder. You all should know better. The ladder has been stupid and inconsistent right from the start, so theres no point in following it to see whos hot and whos not.

GET HYPE FOR GU EVEN THO I AINT GOIN.

XD <3 <3 <3
 
Ooh hot!

Its time to air people out for there false claims!

NY don't let lame shit fly by like that!

WTF is a KDZ! Muahaha nigga still stuck on his season record after getting outpaced at championships. The mentality of someone who is trying to hard!

I'm feeling like a jerk and I like it right now!
 
No one cares about u!

The target is Thugish etc. Damn u live in ur own world.

Oh by the way people! KDZ thinks Nats is weak because allegedly it took 5 hours between matches. So the comp was stupid. Mind u this is Mr. Exaggeration and I wonder what all the competitors at Nats think about such a claim and if they felt it took 5 hours between matches! Therefore Nats is exempt from his eyes. Hahaha and this i supposed to be a competitor.

U really need to check that mind of yours and quench that ego. There is not a single person on this forums that thinks ur #1 besides urself. Most won't even find u anywhere near that close. I can't help myself lol! I wonder what its like to live in KDZ's world.
 
Well to be fair you are trying to say Evo was less competitive even though it had way more people, so you can't call foul on that. You are doing roughly the same thing. Just because you didn't show up doesn't mean it was worse than nationals.

[edit] Also you really can't shit on his tournament record, winning that many times is pretty damn good. I don't think he's #1 but then who really agrees on a #1 player? I don't consider anyone definitive #1.
 
Ceirnian said:
Well to be fair you are trying to say Evo was less competitive even though it had way more people, so you can't call foul on that. You are doing roughly the same thing. Just because you didn't show up doesn't mean it was worse than nationals.

[edit] Also you really can't shit on his tournament record, winning that many times is pretty damn good. I don't think he's #1 but then who really agrees on a #1 player? I don't consider anyone definitive #1.
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I agree with everything u said 100%. I'm not trying to say is worth nothing as Evo, Nats, NVGA are worth more than any other tournament period for obvious reasons. Its the best of the best, international, etc. Its either show up or shut u and I think any serious competitor would agree.

Evo vs. Nats is a matter of minor dispute because u can have cross reasons for one being better than the other. I was just pointing out how his claim that Evo was the best is not necessarily the case. Regardless all three were hot with NVGA being the least out of the three for obvious reasons due to less comp compared to the other two but still damn good comp better than every tournament but Evo or Nats.

I just want to clarify I have the utmost respect for KDZ as a player and I was even starting to like the guy and I understand he has an ego. That's who he is but sometimes its to much and he comes out of no where making shit up so I figured I would clarify all his exagerrated or wrong claims and put them in perspective.

In realitly if he was the best it wouldn't matter if liked him personally but I would have no choice but to respect him competitively. Thats not the case though. He is definitely top but not the best and therefore his ego is unwarranted most of the time. You couldn't have said it better in that their is no #1 definitive player but Thugish deserves the credit more than anyone else for his placings in all three of those majors. Consistent from the start to the finish and u can't do nothin but respect it.

If this was pre-Evo-Nats-NVGA then we would have nothing to go on but the tournaments prior. Evo-Nats-NVGA change that though as they are championships (involving the best, international, etc) So past tense tournaments go out the window and it has always been that way for any fighting game. SCIV and Jaxels flawed ranking list do not change those foundations. That's all i'm saying.
 
The ranking system is about as good as it's going to get as long as everyone uploads the TIO files and keeps it completely current. It's based off of the system used in Tennis, a professional sport that is WAAAAAAY more popular and putting out way more money than our esport can hope to dream for the next few decades (is my guess). I think it's pretty solid. If you really feel you are better than KDZ and you want to prove it through the charts rather than just beating him or whatever, then start placing first in tournaments and upping your score. Otherwise continue doing your thing and ignore the charts.

Consistency matters a lot. The game has only been out 1 year, don't worry about it so much.
 
Something-Unique said:
DINO:
For the Kilik vs. Voldo matchup
Esom
Kilik has edged out all of them fairly easy by a noticeable margin
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To my knowledge we've never played and the only Kilik I've lost to in tourneys or ft5-10 is Thugish. That has more to do with Thugish though. Ryujin, BLDave and Kura all fell to my Voldo. I've not had a chance to play many other Kiliks though, unfortunately.

I'd still say 5-5. Sure Kilik has Ashura, but Voldo has powerful Ks and is moer than capable of playing an entire match of nothing but BT moves and Ks to nullify most of what Kilik has to offer. On the other hand Kilik has wrB which then nullifies most of Voldo's close range moves. It's a real toss-up.
 
Btw for Sophitia vs Kilik, i think that she can be a big pain, she limits a lot's his mixup. Still she have neither and will suffer damage to go close. It's a 5-5.

I really think that Voldo has an advantage versus Kilik, like Ivy he has the power and the tools to deal better than other character against Kilik. It's 6-4 for him in my oppinion.

About Kilik : he is very weak versus stepguarding and espacially if you duck~stand a lot with steping (fuzzy guarding). He doesn't have any anti-stepguarding tools that are CHing the opponent consitently (6AA is whifing, AA is too slow, aB is not consistent), the low can be ducked, the grab can be escaped and ducked.

And PLUS he doesn't have ANY GOOD MID to deal with fuzzy guarding. 3B don't launch. 88B not safe and 4A+B is too slow. Only 6B+K can be pratical at this point, but poor damage.

Now your talking about mixup, he don't have any real. Espacially 4A+B / 1_3A+B who can be ducked on reaction on non-laggy TV, especially when Kilik is at right side. You can maybe go for kB / 66B mixup, poor damage.

Still his defense is incredibly good, espacially iWS B. And if player can't capitalize damage after steeping or stepguarding this shit, they lose to the change.

My top tier list is still :
Hilde, Algol, Voldo (in order)

Then there will be characters like Kilik, Ivy, Amy etc.

As for EVO, it was very competitive, espcially in my pool (C), i did my best after recovering from the lag problem that caused me missing all sliding moves on my first match. On loser bracket facing RTD two round before the final round of the pool proove that it was not easy to place high, Ceirnian, Essom, Hates, Kero, blackmamba also were all there to kill you before top8.

I still think that i did really good on my match (besides the first one), and still i can't manage to enter the top8!
 
Everyone knows that Kilik vs Algol is for Kilik's favor, still i really think that Algol has better advantage versus a lot's of character. His core gameplay is just on a other level of possibility, it's like pressing at 2D fighting games! And only few character that can shutdown his possibility. The other has a lot's of difficult and it becomes very hard to fight versus Algol than Kilik for these ones.

Where Kilik as a 5-5 there a lot's of character that just can't approch Algol.

The difference beetween what Maxou said, is that i think he overate Setsuka too a bit. She's strong, but player is human, also Cervantes and Yoshi seems ultra strong on paper, but execution matters a lot's, espacially when it's not safe.

Voldo, Hilde and Algol has really got the power, the easy-way cheapness, and all other stuff to dominate. And Hilde lose here first place to Voldo if the ring is bad.
 
Ceirnian said:
The ranking system is about as good as it's going to get as long as everyone uploads the TIO files and keeps it completely current. It's based off of the system used in Tennis, a professional sport that is WAAAAAAY more popular and putting out way more money than our esport can hope to dream for the next few decades (is my guess). I think it's pretty solid. If you really feel you are better than KDZ and you want to prove it through the charts rather than just beating him or whatever, then start placing first in tournaments and upping your score. Otherwise continue doing your thing and ignore the charts.

Consistency matters a lot. The game has only been out 1 year, don't worry about it so much.
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If u read the responses I made to KDZ's claims in this thread u would know its not about me being better than KDZ. I'm not into self-proclaiming anything (which he does) I let the people do the talking. More specifically people that are actually top etc because self-procliaming shit is gonna get me no where. I quoted everything he said specifically and proved it all wrong and in some cases even exposed the methods he uses to prevent himself from looking bad publically (talking shit getting beat down bad and refusing to let vids up immediately after running his mouth for days) since he decided to make claims three times in three different ways before I decided to give him a reality check.

Also I don't want to prove anything through the charts as its like I said its flawed and I provided evidence for that as well hence Thugish, Malek, RTD. All more consistent than him between all the events that matter the most. I will continue to ignore the score and i'm sure anyone with sense on the matter probably already did or will too.

YouAreFail:

We played at MysticBill's like 7 Games in casuals. This is not talking about player skill like who's better its targeting a reflection of how the matchup plays itself out when u have players with high skill. Shit if u and the other Voldo's I mentioned says its a 5/5 I would change it back to a 5/5 because overall u guys have the opinion. All the voldo's I mentioned I either played in tournament or casuals or both.

Hayate:

I can't comment on ur posts to much because u don't play Kilik anywhere close to the way we play Kilik in the states or Koreans for that matter. You rely on things that all the rest of us think are generally useless (not talking about skill but talking about utilization of Kilik). You rely on things we feel make him less effective etc and u seem to have a different viewpoint towards him that we do not understand or agree with.
 
Well, you have your opinion but you never played against a "real" Setsuka so it's all good. Execution doesn't matter, especially when you don't need a JF to do combos.

And execution never prevented players like HDR, Thiry or Kira to play with "skilled" moves. Setsuka is just the same.

IMO hayate, you focus way to much on the difficulties to LEARN the character, but you don't see the reward when you PLAY the character. I miss way more simple (sometimes I miss 214B and only do 4B, or when i do 4A I happen to do 44A) stuff than the so-called "skilled" stuff (> umbrella in combos or 1A:A, the other JF are JF in name only).
 
Again in fighting games there are always people who can make characters with the hardest execution look easy.

Easy or difficult to do moves do not reflect a characters placing on the tier list! Its not like her whole movelist is all JF's and the margin for error is always there.
 
SU:

True about different utilization, that's indeed real, just too way different moveset used. But i'am not sure about Koreans. I watched a lot's of stuff of Kura's Kilik and talked with him. We have much more utilization in common than other players, not exactly but they are more agressive, and i saw some of setups that i use also. Espacially the using of auto-gi, 3BB for example. Still i saw a lot's of things that didn't see anywhere, that's was really great.

Btw, agreeing or not for the usability of a moveset is a valid point of view, especially if you manage to win match with it. You have my respect for that. Still even if you disagree or don't understand, how you can explain that i can compete with useless things. I think its still applicable, maybe less effective, but definitly not so worse, and that make it a valid case.

Maxou:

I understand your point about, simple way rewarding. Still i think i miss real proof about the characters, that's why you right about saying that i don't played real good setsuka. Maybe i will have more clue in September then.

Ramon:

I know that DINA (one of the best sophi here) will surely say that it's Kilik's favor, but G-Remy will surely say it's for Sophitia.
I really want to know your opinion about it. For Kilik's or Sophitia's favor?
 
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