Siegfried Videos

ICE: good play over all. good to see you block and punish 1A consistently

suggestions:
- use 4K a lot more. B6 is a good mid poke yes but on block you are heavy negative frames and limited to GI or guard. 4K on the other hand allows you to step after it is blocked, which brings me to the next point
- sidestep more, cass step killers are not so scary, gotta punish her for spamming her stupid BB and things like that
- it is good that you could get the 22k:a:2A several times, however you need to keep in mind that it does not hit the ground and is therefore pretty useless as okizeme, which brings me to...
- you need to work on your okizeme. I'm aware sieg doesn't have very good ability in this area, but I feel that you could improve it, so be sure to mess around with that and find better oki strategy
- as several others said, need to do more WS . when you did use it you applied good mixup but you used the move too rarely.
 
All your other points were cool, but...

"Cass step killers are not so scary"
1. 4AB~4BBA = 60+ for a safe move
2. 236AB = 50 for a move that you can ONLY punish with WS K
3. 66K = Sit-down stun that you can barely shake in time to escape followup damage. Allows for stupid mixups after.
4. 3AK = + stupidity on hit, also catches all step, fastest of all these options but the shortest range, 45+ on CH

Prepare him for the dangers of high-level step killers.
 
warble said:
I suggest you go check the frame data again then. And hint hint, that's precisely how you beat Cassandra...what the hell are you babbling about in the rest of your post? Are you so bad at Soul Calibur that you think Siegfried is a character that's unable to win a close battle when forced to by the matchup? And you don't think you can defend against Cassandra mixup because...what...you think it's physically impossible? Cass is a pressure punisher, not a mixup queen although her mixup is effective and should be trained against. If you can't defend a solid mixup at close range with Siegfried you need to (a) improve your defense and (b) start using faster moves. That's precisely how Siegfried adapts to the Cassandra matchup.
Click to expand...

Wow, wtf? How did this become a fucking flame war? What's your problem man? I don't think you have any right to question my level of play and start making personal shots.

I never said anything about not being able to defend against her, she has shit for lows. I'm saying cutting 3B from your game isn't needed. But apparently, unless you do cut it from your game, you're a shitty player right? It's alright, i'm done talking. There's no need for me to argue against someone who already knows what to do and how to do it.

Go use your "defensive tactics" and show me how it's done.
 
KDZaster said:
All your other points were cool, but...

"Cass step killers are not so scary"
1. 4AB~4BBA = 60+ for a safe move
2. 236AB = 50 for a move that you can ONLY punish with WS K
3. 66K = Sit-down stun that you can barely shake in time to escape followup damage. Allows for stupid mixups after.
4. 3AK = + stupidity on hit, also catches all step, fastest of all these options but the shortest range, 45+ on CH

Prepare him for the dangers of high-level step killers.
Click to expand...

4AB is punishable by sieg's 6K whether she does the second hit or not, if she does second hit it's a counterhit. second hit also steppable on block if he steps left if seig wants to be greedy/he's very on point. after say, blocked 4K, sieg can easily step G this as well, so I don't consider this much of a threat

good point about 236AB, only being able to WS K it sucks

66K isn't tracking at all from my testing

3AK is free 3 on block for sieg

The way I see it cass can potentially hurt you a lot for stepping, but only at close range, and to do so she must use unsafe moves. These step killers do not seem to be multipurpose moves so she's probably not gonna be doing them unless you are stepping her often. If she's close enough she can use throws though of course, and Cass has very good throws. By stepping you can potentially whiff punish most of her moves for good damage, and if she does start doing her step killers you can just try to outspace them or block more often. I'm not saying it's impossible for Cass to deal with this, but I do think smart sidestepping gives her problems.
 
I see warble is at it again....sigh...he just doesnt give up and yes....3A is punishable by deathfist warble....and I`ll say it again....its punishable by deathfist warble.

Tiamat and KDZ- the way I see it if either one messes up the other recieves damage. Tiamat, some of those are worth the risk of getting poke damage since it looks more like a med risk high reward.
 
Tiamat said:
4AB is punishable by sieg's 6K whether she does the second hit or not, if she does second hit it's a counterhit. second hit also steppable on block if he steps left if seig wants to be greedy/he's very on point. after say, blocked 4K, sieg can easily step G this as well, so I don't consider this much of a threat

good point about 236AB, only being able to WS K it sucks

66K isn't tracking at all from my testing

3AK is free 3 on block for sieg

The way I see it cass can potentially hurt you a lot for stepping, but only at close range, and to do so she must use unsafe moves. These step killers do not seem to be multipurpose moves so she's probably not gonna be doing them unless you are stepping her often. If she's close enough she can use throws though of course, and Cass has very good throws. By stepping you can potentially whiff punish most of her moves for good damage, and if she does start doing her step killers you can just try to outspace them or block more often. I'm not saying it's impossible for Cass to deal with this, but I do think smart sidestepping gives her problems.
Click to expand...


To add to what you said, those are all risky moves to thwart step. With 3A being the worst considering it's poor range.

236AB is a huge risk, considering how slow that B part is. And 236A by itself sucks.
 
Frame Data:

Cass 236B
i15

Siegfried 3A
H: KND
B: -14~-13
Not punishable by i15's

Compared to

3[ B ]~SCH
H: KND
B: -5~-4
SCH K i11
punishable by i15's

I wrote like two "you're an asshole" rants to kpc but decided I'd try being nice this time and deleted them. Let's see if it works! Godly defense is much easier when you're not throwing punishable moves in every 2 seconds...it's only godly compared to the crap you guys think is appropriate to throw out there.
 
warble said:
Frame Data:

Cass 236B
i15

Siegfried 3A
H: KND
B: -14~-13
Not punishable by i15's

Compared to

3[ B ]~SCH
H: KND
B: -5~-4
SCH K i11
punishable by i15's

I wrote like two "you're an asshole" rants to kpc but decided I'd try being nice this time and deleted them. Let's see if it works! Godly defense is much easier when you're not throwing punishable moves in every 2 seconds...it's only godly compared to the crap you guys think is appropriate to throw out there.
Click to expand...

Did you check that 3a data?
It's just a little wrong, you can punish Seigfried's 3a with Cassandra's 236B at close range.
Rigel has done it to me, and I've done it to other Seigfrieds.

I think it's actually 14~15.

If you're gonna be super mean, Warble, at least be right.
 
I know it's punishable at close range, it's also not that fast so why would I ever use that close up against Cassandra lol

warble said:
Not ranged correctly
Click to expand...

That's what I said, I said it because the move sucks at close range. Hopefully you're clarifying so people know to use it when spaced correctly. I know it's punishable at close range...I said it in this thread on the last damn page...I don't repeat my posts but here I did it so you know I wasn't talking out of my ass with my latest post. I, too, have been punished enough to know not to throw in a 3a at close range. 3a also has decent range, counters steps and can be used to prevent Cassandra from closing distance. I use it safely all the time! What I did is listed the mainstay moves I use to play against Cassandra at a high level, 3 is not one of them unless you're talking about punishment or anticipatory counter-hit.

And...just a question...how is preventing people who are new at Siegfried from throwing 3 and getting punished by chars with good i15's mean? Seems like I'm trying to teach these kids how to play a higher level game and be more selective with their move choices according to the matchup. But hey, if that's mean...
 
warble said:
I suggest you go check the frame data again then. And hint hint, that's precisely how you beat Cassandra...what the hell are you babbling about in the rest of your post? Are you so bad at Soul Calibur that you think Siegfried is a character that's unable to win a close battle when forced to by the matchup? And you don't think you can defend against Cassandra mixup because...what...you think it's physically impossible? Cass is a pressure punisher, not a mixup queen although her mixup is effective and should be trained against. If you can't defend a solid mixup at close range with Siegfried you need to (a) improve your defense and (b) start using faster moves. That's precisely how Siegfried adapts to the Cassandra matchup.
Click to expand...


warble said:
I know it's punishable at close range, it's also not that fast so why would I ever use that close up against Cassandra lol



That's what I said, I said it because the move sucks at close range. Hopefully you're clarifying so people know to use it when spaced correctly. I know it's punishable at close range...I said it in this thread on the last damn page...I don't repeat my posts but here I did it so you know I wasn't talking out of my ass with my latest post. I, too, have been punished enough to know not to throw in a 3a at close range. 3a also has decent range, counters steps and can be used to prevent Cassandra from closing distance. I use it safely all the time! What I did is listed the mainstay moves I use to play against Cassandra at a high level, 3 is not one of them unless you're talking about punishment or anticipatory counter-hit.

And...just a question...how is preventing people who are new at Siegfried from throwing 3 and getting punished by chars with good i15's mean? Seems like I'm trying to teach these kids how to play a higher level game and be more selective with their move choices according to the matchup. But hey, if that's mean...
Click to expand...


So you hail 3A as one your greatest moves against Cass when she is close, then you contradict yourself later by saying that you only use it at range. Wtf are you babbling about with the close range mixup gibberish. If you are in a mixup, you do 1 of 4 things.

1.Use a tech move that dodges what they are going to do.
2.Use a faster move
3.Get hit
4.Block it

Im not sure of 3A teching properties, if any, but atleast 3B has a TC in the case they dont use a mid.
As for this sort of situation,

i11: SCH K/SSH K
i12: SCH A
i13: K
i14: 6K
i15: 6A/1K/3K/66K/FC 2K/WS K/a+kA
i16: B6/SBH K
i17: A+G_B+G/3B/4A/WS A/WS B/FC 2A/agA/SRSH B
i18: 4B/A+B/A/SSH A/SSH A+B/SCH B/SRSH K
i19: 3A/4K/2A
i21: 2K
i22: A+K/66A/FC 2B/FC 2A+G_B+G
i23: 2B/11B/SBH A
i24: 1B/B
i25: 6B
i26: SSH B
i27: 1A
i28: 2A+B/SCH A+B

2_8B+K, K_A 7_8_9K 3K 3A 1A 6B agA

Lets look at the frames shall we. Your only real viable in option in YOUR core game against a sister is K,3K, When faced with a mixup.

Considering mixups, you should look more at these then.
i13: K
i14: 6K
i15: 6A/1K/3K/66K/FC 2K/WS K/a+kA

If I read that right, if you meant SCH K_A then in your core attack list, only one of your core attacks can deal with a mixup situation.
 
coth_x said:
So you hail 3A as one your greatest moves against Cass when she is close, then you contradict yourself later by saying that you only use it at range. Wtf are you babbling about with the close range mixup gibberish. If you are in a mixup, you do 1 of 4 things.

1.Use a tech move that dodges what they are going to do.
2.Use a faster move
3.Get hit
4.Block it
Click to expand...

Ok you're a fucking idiot I never said 3A was a move to use up close against Cass. Don't spout your lies at me, little boy. It catches steps...that is what it does.

And you forgot the most obvious move to do in a mixup.

0) PARRY

Bad advice from you comes by the bushel now doesn't it? Do you even PLAY soul calibur?
 
Aulord:
Very briefly
vs Sophie
Less 3B gambles,more iWS , more 4K, more jaGA attempts, he really needs it although Sophie is a TC whore.
9B her 236236AA all the time, quite easy
Less random B4 attempts
More step
Really liked your throws, and RSH A+B usage
Not really sure why Ramon was eating 2A+B so much

vs Voldo
Reflexively 7B his freak roll explode
3B(CH) -> SCH A+B is the combo of choice
Could've done with some more 1K
You played very well here, i can't critique much. Good show.
Solid Sieg.
 
warble said:
Ok you're a fucking idiot I never said 3A was a move to use up close against Cass. Don't spout your lies at me, little boy. It catches steps...that is what it does.

And you forgot the most obvious move to do in a mixup.

0) PARRY

Bad advice from you comes by the bushel now doesn't it? Do you even PLAY soul calibur?
Click to expand...


Reread that first post I quoted, you made a bash about the guy about mixups. You brought up mixups, and you brought up 3A being a great move against Cass.

You cant seem to take even the slightest criticism either, Im 21, not a little kid. In a mixup the best solution is not a parry. If you can block you wont take damage. If you parry incorrectly they get a hit anyways. So no, parry is not the best option. Actually, I rarely give advice, but when I do, it makes more sense than yours does.

When someone has logical disagreement with me, I assess my orignial thought then respond. If they seem right then I will concede.

When someone has logical disagreement with you, you don't assess your original thought, you attack them, call them a kid, and say you are super elite high level SC player and no one compares to you.

Oh one more thing, you almost always find a way to insert parry = owns all attacks somewhere in your arguements.

I do moderately well with what I can, and parrying is usually not an option i use. It resets advantage so if you have to use parry in the first place, it means you dont try to deal with the opponent in any other way. Parry can/will allow them to do what they did in the first place to make you parry. So no, parry is not the "best" option in a mixup. Beating the opponent to the punch or a solid defense are good options.

There is no best option when it comes to dealing with a mixup, however, I amend my other post.

Yes, parry/impact is an option for dealing with mixups.
 
there he goes with parrying nonsense again. The funny thing is he really thinks people are listening to his "great advice."

Warble- Just put SC down, and walk away. go find a better hobby like...oh...I dunno pottery?
 
Aulord: I'm glad I'm finally able to see some of your match videos, you play a very solid Sieg with few wasted moves (as I am very spammy like Monty Python).

Sophie is our hardest matchup imo, but just to add to the repetoire of knowledge, her non jf 236B is punishable but 3B I believe. I realize Ramon was spamming B+K hard, I guess going into practice mode and trying to see how you can punish that will help, maybe 6A can do the trick?

If anyone has some time, place critique my Sieg, I realize I spammed 3B far too much and I've been doing well to help use it more in moderation than as a crutch. X, Amy, and Sisters give me the hardest time at the moment (and probably Taki should I ever face one). Basically the entire female cast lol.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ppnNwx3CssM&hl=en&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/XWx9axkv-QA&hl=en&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/XWx9axkv-QA&hl=en&fs=1
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom