The future of Algol, Hilde and Star Wars

[Angrel-San]

Now that the summer season is over, what are the conclusions for these characters?

Is Algol gonna be unbanned now, is Hilde gonna be banned? What about Star Wars? Now that BD is approaching and Algol is still there as a playable and Star Wars are gone, how is this gonna be approached?

Need to know so I don't waste my time practicing with banned characters...AGAIN.

 

[Something-Unique]

Its difficult to say. For what its worth though Algol should be unbanned everywhere as he isn't ban worthy. More importantly its clear that Hilde is the real character that this community bitches about and she has been running loose all over the place. I don't think she should be banned in the slightest either and especially, especially because she did not win Nats or Evo.

With all that said it doesn't make sense to ban him. Secretely I wanna see the best Algol I have ever seen come back. Hint, Hint = RTD and see to what degree he tears things up.

On the matters of Star Wars I don't think they should be banned either.

In fact based on the competitive nature of this game and no one true character dominating in tournaments. No character should be banned.

 

[eagles4life10]

I think Rock will be banned.

 

[The-Instigator]

I think Rock will be banned.

Nice choice... I going with Talim with this one *fingers crossed*

 

[Angrel-San]

Please don't spam the thread guys, thanks!

SU-I ask about Star Wars since this happened before wih SC3 console. When AE came, the console characters were banned then to resemble AE somewhat. Since BD is around the corner and it seems like an upgrade to the game and no Star Wars there, I wonder if the same will happen. After all they are guests.

 

[Whodat]

Like I said back in the SC3 days I really didn't think the game should try to resemble something that it's not. Last time I checked BD was on PSP so just leave it there and let SC4 stay how it is on console. Star Wars Characters allowed.

Algol isn't and never was post patch ban worthy. Everyone here whined, bitched, and moaned until people banned him, but it was really unjust. Now that Hilde started wrecking shop on people then everyone is like "well maybe we made a mistake banning Algol". Most places have unbanned Algol and I think it should be uniform everywhere else.

If anyone should even be discussed about a ban it should be Hilde, but I don't feel that she needs to be banned. Patched maybe, but not banned. You have to fight against her different than you have to fight any other character in the game, but that's how it is an any game you play that has a top tier character. You had to fight X different in SC3, you have to fight Cable different in MVC2, and you had to fight Steve different in Tekken 5.0. Just step your game up and learn how to fight these characters before you start swinging around the Ban Stick.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

I think Rock will be banned.

Don't even joke about that.

 

[The-Instigator]

None of the characters should be banned anyway... it has been over a year since this game came out. If you are still bitching about the 'brokeness' of the game, go play Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter, or any other fighting games instead.

/topic.

 

[Archangel]

I'm profoundly shocked people still expect Algol and Hilde to be banned after Evo and Nationals.

 

[Tiamat]

people here are amazing like that

 

[BatousaiNori]

Doesn't Algol have infinites? I don't know much about him, I just remember seeing Oofmatic doing that to Cepzeu at Nats, and me and Cepzeu just stared at each other for like 5 minutes while he was getting torn up by bubbles in the air. If so, can we not just ban the obvious infinites and just allow the char for tourneys?

Also, there was never a reason to ban SW chars at all

 

[franman]

I agree with Whodat's last paragraph about Hilde. What about bonus characters? Are they gonna be banned from now on since Evo banned them?

 

[NinjaCW]

Doesn't Algol have infinites? I don't know much about him, I just remember seeing Oofmatic doing that to Cepzeu at Nats, and me and Cepzeu just stared at each other for like 5 minutes while he was getting torn up by bubbles in the air. If so, can we not just ban the obvious infinites and just allow the char for tourneys?

Also, there was never a reason to ban SW chars at all

If you get hit by the attack that leads into the infinite you deserve to be infinited lol

 

[PhilBond]

Doesn't Algol have infinites? I don't know much about him, I just remember seeing Oofmatic doing that to Cepzeu at Nats, and me and Cepzeu just stared at each other for like 5 minutes while he was getting torn up by bubbles in the air. If so, can we not just ban the obvious infinites and just allow the char for tourneys?

Algol infinites are situational enough to allow. Things that are easier to do than an Algol infinite:
Critical Finish
Ring Out
Hilde Doom Combo

 

[BatousaiNori]

Algol infinites are situational enough to allow. Things that are easier to do than an Algol infinite:
Critical Finish
Ring Out
Hilde Doom Combo

Ok cool. I asked because there is no point in me making a decision where I wasn't sure. Personally, I even feel bonus chars should be allowed as they make no REAL difference in high level play. Scrubs might complain, but I don't see a top player complaining in the future losing to Shura vs Cervantes, for example.

 

[Stryker]

Reason to ban Algol: just one; Bubbles... you can spam bubbles, combo with bubbles, hang around from far away the opponent while you shoot bubbles everywhere... and with different speeds, angles and consequences... if Algol is patched and the bubbles are replaced with regular sword moves then its time to be unbanned.

Reason to ban Hilde: no one... she is a broken tier, as we had in any Soul Series game since SB(but she is the most); excellent range, low unsafe percentage, excellent pressure game, but I think all this is at the same level of characters like Kilik, Ivy and Amy, her only "broken property" its her big advantages in RO and combos from any distance and situation. With a patch anything can be fixed.

Reason to ban SW chars: in order to play against any of this character you have to learn a lot about their moves and the force bar; its like Namco tried to test those characters in SC to start the developing of a new sword combat game but only with SW chars. I can't see a reason to ban (except for Yoda who cannot be throw or hit with a high move), but if your community of players doesn't include SW freaks then is a good choice to ban them.

Reason to ban bonus: bonus characters have the same move list to some regulars characters in the game, but with some different properties like tracking and reach(and maybe in some cases more damage I guess). Those characters doesn't have the appealing of SC characters and if your community was build by serious players then ban them forever.

-Stryker-

 

[Something-Unique]

SU-I ask about Star Wars since this happened before wih SC3 console. When AE came, the console characters were banned then to resemble AE somewhat. Since BD is around the corner and it seems like an upgrade to the game and no Star Wars there, I wonder if the same will happen. After all they are guests.

Ah I see! It still doesn't really constitute a ban but what can I say.

I'm still gonna stick with the no bans movement personally but who knows whats gonna happen.

 

[Ljkabookie]

no one would have a problem with the starwars characters, if namco had not made them starwars characters and had instead made new no names with exactly the same movesets we wouldnt even be debating the issue. none of them are high in your 'tier' lists so i dont even see the point in complaining that they are there, its their appearance that people dont like in reality, not their movesets.

least thats what i think anyways.

 

[Eyce_Theon]

I usually just pop into one of these threads to post my opinion and leave, but I feel the urge to logic with this.

Reason to ban Algol: just one; Bubbles...if Algol is patched and the bubbles are replaced with regular sword moves then its time to be unbanned.

Bans should not be based on a character playing differently or having more tools than other characters. If someone is not competitively gamebreaking, there is no reason to remove them. Algol's bubbles can be GI'd anyway, it's not like they're ranged moves that you can't do anything about.

Reason to ban Hilde: ...excellent range, low unsafe percentage, excellent pressure game...at the same level of characters like Kilik, Ivy and Amy...big advantages in RO and combos from any distance and situation. With a patch anything can be fixed.

I agree. Though some may complain, she is beatable. Her ROs only make her dangerous, they don't give her instant victory if her opponent doesn't let her. Also, If you've read about it in the BD subforum, Hilde's RO combo was apparently nerfed severely. A patch may very well come down for SC4 upon release.

Reason to ban SW chars: ...you have to learn a lot about their moves and the force bar...I can't see a reason to ban (except for Yoda who cannot be throw or hit with a high move)...

Again, none of these characters are gamebreaking, and there is no reason to ban them after their release as DLC on opposing systems. Some people still cling desperately to "BUT YODA I CAN'T GRAB HIM ARGHSGBM!23" as a reason to ban him, but if you look at EVERY other aspect of his character, you'll see that his grapple-evading short stature is almost all he has going for him.

Reason to ban bonus: bonus characters have the same move list...but with some different properties...

Though I do hate that these 5 bad ideas were even put into the game, they're available in the game. Some Cervy and Amy players might detest the existence of anime-style female clones of themselves with longer weapons, but they're hardly broken. Just play a little safer against them if you don't have the matchup experience - it's what you do for any other member of the cast, right?

 

[rashreflection]

AFAIK the only infinites that have ever been singled out and banned in the US are Tekken 5.0 Steve's infinite, and dead-body infinites in Marvel (since they guarantee a time-out win after killing 1/3 of a team). Well, that and some Smash stuff, but Smash is its own planet compared to the rest of the US scene anyway. =P

Japan does it a bit more, but this varies depending on the particular community. Infinites tend to be banned in SNK games, and Arcana Heart also banned all infinites, but games like SF2/Marvel/Melty Blood/Hokuto no Ken never banned them.

Character bans are similarly rare. The US used to insta-ban any console characters back when arcade was still the tournament standard, but that practice has obviously died out (thank you SC community for moving to console first, btw). Other than that, it's mainly just ST Akuma and some (not all!) SNK bosses, who are broken on a level well beyond any SC character. Well, there's also Akuma in HD Remix, but:

1. I don't agree with that ban, as he has nowhere near the amount of tournament dominance that, say, Metaknight does in Brawl. And even the Smash community ended up not banning Metaknight!

2. Metaknight & HDR Akuma are both still stronger than anyone in SC4. Metaknight has no counter-picks, period; Akuma has maybe 1 or 2, Hilde is probably the same (and her main strengths are stage-dependent), and Algol definitely has more than any of them. You could even argue that Eddie in Accent Core is better overall than Hilde or Algol, and the thought of banning him has never been entertained in the slightest.


tl;dr - Nobody in SC4 is "broken" by the standards of fighting games as a whole, no extra rules are necessary.