hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
hey nice, will check them out in a few
Yoshimitsu Web Theater.
- Thread starter SWBeta
- Start date
BEENEEWEENEES
lookin nice
how they hell can he consistently hit imcf but not earslicer o.O earslicer is much much easier than imcf imo
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
difficult to do in combos, after 44bB
iMCF is the combo initiator and is easy just as a:B+K by itself as a normal attack is easy.
Watched all the vids, i'll keep it brief. Yoshi needs to not give up his ground combo damage with 3B.
Definitely needed more 2K and throws in his game.
Has to work on baiting RLC B so he cane step and punish it. MST 6 and RLC B was working too well.
66K is a good tool to use vs Mitsu in general to prevent 2KBs
Nice usage of 66A+B among many other things i was pleased with...but the stuff i mentioned will be good additions to polish his game.
bA and a:B+K and 3K are all good tools to use a lot as Yosh, not sure why hardly any Yoshi players do them. My Yoshi is soo different i guess :-/ i might start playing him again and record some vids i suppose
iMCF is the combo initiator and is easy just as a:B+K by itself as a normal attack is easy.
Watched all the vids, i'll keep it brief. Yoshi needs to not give up his ground combo damage with 3B.
Definitely needed more 2K and throws in his game.
Has to work on baiting RLC B so he cane step and punish it. MST 6 and RLC B was working too well.
66K is a good tool to use vs Mitsu in general to prevent 2KBs
Nice usage of 66A+B among many other things i was pleased with...but the stuff i mentioned will be good additions to polish his game.
bA and a:B+K and 3K are all good tools to use a lot as Yosh, not sure why hardly any Yoshi players do them. My Yoshi is soo different i guess :-/ i might start playing him again and record some vids i suppose
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Difficult in 44bB combos? Time to practice more, Johnny. =) So, you're finally gonna post some vids? Looking forward to this.
I dunno about bA. 3K should definitely be considered a staple, though. Not sure how you're applying a:B+K as a staple in your game. Can you explain more? I'd honestly rather AA. Better frames and a consistent step killer. a:B+K can get stepped sometimes.
I dunno about bA. 3K should definitely be considered a staple, though. Not sure how you're applying a:B+K as a staple in your game. Can you explain more? I'd honestly rather AA. Better frames and a consistent step killer. a:B+K can get stepped sometimes.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
hehe, well i am old ;)
But u must admit it's more difficult to do it here than outside combos.
Why not? Style, speed, CH damage, safe enough and even decent hitstun (+2?)
3K is whoreable indeed....but....a:B+K, does way more potential damage on CH than AA. I don't really care about it being stepped honestly. Almost everything from Yoshi can get stepped except horizontals, but you can't let that hinder u. It's CH damage and SPEED is all i need ;) at i12...thats too viable. I do use AA and 6A as well in conjunction....but AA is not scary and 6A is a bit slower.
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
With the exception of TC CH hunting (which I can see being a char. specific thing), why not just BB? In what situations would you be really whoring out BA?
Isn't the point to get them to stand still occasionally? I guess it really depends on the match-up again as well. Opponents with solid WS / TC moves really hurt a:B+K. While the second A from AA can sometimes save your ass. For me, though, the negative frames on block and the spacing left post-block is not really the position I like to be in. In what ways are you whoring out a:B+K?
Make that vid. You always mention differences in styles. I gotta see it in action. ^_^
Isn't the point to get them to stand still occasionally? I guess it really depends on the match-up again as well. Opponents with solid WS / TC moves really hurt a:B+K. While the second A from AA can sometimes save your ass. For me, though, the negative frames on block and the spacing left post-block is not really the position I like to be in. In what ways are you whoring out a:B+K?
Make that vid. You always mention differences in styles. I gotta see it in action. ^_^
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
Strictly speaking, i don't whore anything except probably throws, 2A and 3K i suppose. I rather say i use them liberally.
Why use bA instead of BB? CH damage is all the reason i need to use a certain tool personally. (especially when almost safe) Don't get me wrong I use BB of course, simple and natural but not quite a substitute. I can just use AA and BB...there is no variety in my game, no pizazz and no fear. These are aspects important to me.
a:B+K is i12, that can give me a shitload on CH and it's safe. Too much analysis on why i do it, too much what ifs. A truly solid TC and WS > AAs too. I take my chances. It's fast and safe and gives me CH damage, i'll use it. I will use a move until i have a blaring reason(s) to NOT use a move. Technically I can do AA, BB, 2K 2A, and iMCF
On block the spacing is fine to me, not that it matters, i don't think much tools give me an advantageous position post guard. That doesn't bother me really, i'm confident in my defense. It's a nice GI setup on block too.
Keep them standing still is a goal...but i prefer to say, I try to keep them hesitating so i can land more throws or stance mixups.
eg I know that if i'm at around +2-4 adv, it's pretty tough to step G a:B+K and 3K...it's also pretty much impossible to interrupt. What do i do with this knowledge is the next step. I think Yoshi relies on reading opponents much more than average characters cuz his mixups are unsafe and he has strong CH tools. Your level of certainty decides how much dmg u can do. Certainty decides if i'll use 2A or 1K to counter highs, or 66K or PG to counter lows etc.
I can't explain any better than that i don't think.
Why use bA instead of BB? CH damage is all the reason i need to use a certain tool personally. (especially when almost safe) Don't get me wrong I use BB of course, simple and natural but not quite a substitute. I can just use AA and BB...there is no variety in my game, no pizazz and no fear. These are aspects important to me.
a:B+K is i12, that can give me a shitload on CH and it's safe. Too much analysis on why i do it, too much what ifs. A truly solid TC and WS > AAs too. I take my chances. It's fast and safe and gives me CH damage, i'll use it. I will use a move until i have a blaring reason(s) to NOT use a move. Technically I can do AA, BB, 2K 2A, and iMCF
On block the spacing is fine to me, not that it matters, i don't think much tools give me an advantageous position post guard. That doesn't bother me really, i'm confident in my defense. It's a nice GI setup on block too.
Keep them standing still is a goal...but i prefer to say, I try to keep them hesitating so i can land more throws or stance mixups.
eg I know that if i'm at around +2-4 adv, it's pretty tough to step G a:B+K and 3K...it's also pretty much impossible to interrupt. What do i do with this knowledge is the next step. I think Yoshi relies on reading opponents much more than average characters cuz his mixups are unsafe and he has strong CH tools. Your level of certainty decides how much dmg u can do. Certainty decides if i'll use 2A or 1K to counter highs, or 66K or PG to counter lows etc.
I can't explain any better than that i don't think.
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Makes sense. Different styles indeed.
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
hotnickelz: thx! those are good advice indeed, I'll rely this to OyM so he can further improve his gameplay for the sake of future vids ^_^.
He uses 3B and 2K otg to set up his 66A+B mixups (66A+B post 2K hits otg is very difficult to deal with) by giving up wake ups you probably refer to DFG but the biggest trouble for yoshi wake up game is that DFG is blockable with progressive defence. its very difficult to make it hit unless its very unexpected (OyM flyes towards me in DFG to make it hit sometimes - its more difficult to react to Yoshis downward slashing motion this way). most top local players can block it 100% of the time. So its the only solution he came up with. =(
He uses 3B and 2K otg to set up his 66A+B mixups (66A+B post 2K hits otg is very difficult to deal with) by giving up wake ups you probably refer to DFG but the biggest trouble for yoshi wake up game is that DFG is blockable with progressive defence. its very difficult to make it hit unless its very unexpected (OyM flyes towards me in DFG to make it hit sometimes - its more difficult to react to Yoshis downward slashing motion this way). most top local players can block it 100% of the time. So its the only solution he came up with. =(
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Vids from the latest NorCal tourney. Some glaring mistakes versus KrayzieCD due to not being completely on my game early in the tourney. Yeah, your eyesight isn't bad. The first vid is a bit blurry due to a camera setting issue that was fixed later on. For you Yoshis look for an anti-Algol solution, I advise you check out my vid versus my brother Botsu.
B-boyTekken
[09] Warrior
Can anybody point me to the right direction to where the best setups for iMCF? I just saw the last vid of the yoshi vs mitsu and I liked the iMCF set up followed after 44A+B. I don't know if it was a set up but it looked nice and something I would use in my artillary.
And yes Owari and Gator, I am trying to use it now after I said I wouldn't. I love the show stopper effect of it. But man it's hard to pull out. Haha. I said pull out.
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Damn, you sure busted out 3B alot after you told me not too!
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HK community? What's that?
And yes Owari and Gator, I am trying to use it now after I said I wouldn't. I love the show stopper effect of it. But man it's hard to pull out. Haha. I said pull out.
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Damn, you sure busted out 3B alot after you told me not too!
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HK community? What's that?
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
6A, iMCF
2A, RCC iMCF
2K, RCC iMCF
AA, iMCF
22K, iMCF
BB (from the proper distance), iMCF
iMCF, RCC iMCF
That's most of the common ones.
Note that I'm mostly using 3B, and not 3AB. If I do use 3AB, I hit check the 3A part. 3AB on block is -20ish and super dangerous.
As a general rule, spamming 3B (-17) is dangerous. Against Voldo, though, the rewards are greater than the risk. Voldo can't reliably punish 3B on block with 66B, so he has to settler for BB. Voldo's step is also terrible, so he can't reliably get away from it. That means he gets maybe 30 damage while you potentially get 50-60 dmg + a RO. 3B also reliably takes Voldo out of BS. If you've ever faced Voldo, that's when he's most powerful and that's the stance you don't want him in.
Algol also can't step well or punish 3B with anything dangerous. Keep Algol pressure is very important, since he lacks strong close-range tools.
Let me give you some examples when not to use it, though.
3B vs. Yoshi - Yoshi can punish with 6K2K. That's ~53 damage punishment for a 3B attempt.
3B vs. a good Cervy - Cervy gets iGDR. That's 90 something damage, I believe? Maybe even more.
3B vs. Setsuka - 44B+K punishes and knocks down, giving Sets wakes ~30 damage.
3B vs. Cassie - She get 236{B}, easy. That's a ton of damage.
3B vs. Sophie - She gets 236B for free.
Hong Kong, I believe.
funkpanda
[09] Warrior
Vs. Asta
Against Astaroth, why didnt you use more IMCF? From my experience against the asta's I play down here, he has no safe way of stopping you from doing it besides 6K and 4B.
Did you use AB(breath) on purpose?
Ok, what is the point of 22B after iMFC? It takes on 7 damage and only moves half a step farther, why risk messing it up(which is why I never do it, I just 3AB).
Vs. Algol
A lot of 1B, does it reliably track at a distance against only HIM? Or the entire cast?
Vs Voldo
I noticed a lot of times you didnt even attempt to 44bB after a successful 3B, was there a reason? Cus i think you could have gained a lot of advantageous space against him.
You did AB again, unless im mistaken - isnt 6K2K garunteed on block?
Good vids though. A lotta things to take away vs algol.
Against Astaroth, why didnt you use more IMCF? From my experience against the asta's I play down here, he has no safe way of stopping you from doing it besides 6K and 4B.
Did you use AB(breath) on purpose?
Ok, what is the point of 22B after iMFC? It takes on 7 damage and only moves half a step farther, why risk messing it up(which is why I never do it, I just 3AB).
Vs. Algol
A lot of 1B, does it reliably track at a distance against only HIM? Or the entire cast?
Vs Voldo
I noticed a lot of times you didnt even attempt to 44bB after a successful 3B, was there a reason? Cus i think you could have gained a lot of advantageous space against him.
You did AB again, unless im mistaken - isnt 6K2K garunteed on block?
Good vids though. A lotta things to take away vs algol.
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
I can answer some of these for him heh
Spacing is the reason why he didn't use iMCF that much
22B after iMCF sux, but...it's hard to CH confirm iMCF and do 22B combo followup....he anticipated CH this time. Obviously he was wrong. I prefer 3AB myself personally though.
1B doesn't track well at all, but Algol can't step....so yeah. Only vs him.
A+B was accidental...at least i think so, or i'll punch hajime in the nutsack
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
Stupid TV had some minor lag, so the game was rife with mis-inputs.
I didn't iMCF often due to pacing and the fact that the NorCal players know how to deal with iMCF spam. You'll notice Krayzie sometimes 8Bs. That's an anti-iMCF tactic. In fact, he 8Ks over one iMCF attempt and 8Bs over another in that video.
A+B was a mis-input. I was likely going for 66A+B, which I can cancel with G if I see the opponent rolling.
I can normally hit-check iMCF and can 22B on reaction. Unfortunately, the TV had some minor lag and I didn't want to miss my opportunity. I like that 22B pushes them that much further. It does make a difference in the testing I've done.
Only against him, since his step is terrible and 4[A+B] takes days to recover. It would probably work against Voldo, too, if he didn't have that sidestep move.
non-CH 3B nets you 44bB only if your timing is stupid perfect. Unfortunately, mine isn't. CH 3B gets you 2x 44bB. Unfortunately, since I've never had the opportunity to 3B spam an opponent, I never acquired the ability to spot an CH 3B on sight. Something I intend to work on for the following tourney.
Misinput again. I'd have to rewatch the vid, but it's likely a 66A+B or or 9A+B. 6K2K is only guaranteed after A+B at certain distances and with great timing. Unless there's a wall behind the opponent, I don't bother.
Better work on those reactions more, old man! It's not hard at all! ^_^
Purely accidental. Sigh. =(
GATOR
[09] Warrior
^^ in general its pretty darn easy to hit confirm ANYTHING in this game with stun properties... its almost as bad as seeing that little joystick toggle in the corner for Virtual fighter.. lol. If anything more of an issue would be the fact that sometimes it has random hitbox issues on certain sides of certain characters. That would be my only issue with it. That being said I'll make it 2 v 2 and agree that the distance the 22B does can be a huge help. Its the type of thing that makes the difference between a doornocker opportunity at the edge after an earslicer or not getting a ringout at all.
CH confirmation on launches is a bit harder but its quite do-able. That being said... I don't 3B out of combos all that often unless I'm near wall and when I do I must either have that window down (last time I played.. its been a while..lol) or get counter hits pretty much every time cuz I've never had a problem with getting 1 44bB in before earslicer. I pretty much never try for the 2 earslicers+ unless I really think I can make it to the edge by swapping 3B for 3AB in a combo.
yoshi's 8K destroys imcf o.O And atsy's 7 B is a bitch for it..lol. Also... 6K is a HUGE HUGE tool in an asty's game...
i hate randomly getting A+B..lol.. Although its pretty funny when you get CH near a wall or edge on accident from it :)
CH confirmation on launches is a bit harder but its quite do-able. That being said... I don't 3B out of combos all that often unless I'm near wall and when I do I must either have that window down (last time I played.. its been a while..lol) or get counter hits pretty much every time cuz I've never had a problem with getting 1 44bB in before earslicer. I pretty much never try for the 2 earslicers+ unless I really think I can make it to the edge by swapping 3B for 3AB in a combo.
yoshi's 8K destroys imcf o.O And atsy's 7 B is a bitch for it..lol. Also... 6K is a HUGE HUGE tool in an asty's game...
i hate randomly getting A+B..lol.. Although its pretty funny when you get CH near a wall or edge on accident from it :)
HajimeOwari
[11] Champion
What hitbox issues do you mean?
I will admit that I failed to punish those 6Ks on block with AA. I always am a bit off in early tournament rounds. >_<
I will admit that I failed to punish those 6Ks on block with AA. I always am a bit off in early tournament rounds. >_<
hotnikkelz
johNNy blaZe
Really?? iMCF CH to 66A+B on reaction is definitely not easy, a lot of anticipation is required. If i see you do tha in match vids i'll believe u.
Hajime...hurt my feelings TT lol
damnit man :p my reflexes really aren't what they're used to be lol
GATOR
[09] Warrior
are you saying the imcf is the original CH or the 66A+B is the original counter hit?
I haven't played much at all over the last 2 months, but I jumped on really quick to give a fair-ish response.
if you mean iMCF first.. then...uhh..lol.
if you mean imcf first and then the 66A+B hits with him still standing... that one does take a lot of anticipation from my 2 min jump on SC to check.
That being said... .. why would you want to go for that afterwards? You can't hit with imcf again cuz you already used the CH stun properties in that combo....
That being said... I said in general..lol. There is surely going to be at least 1 link (however useless as that one seems to me) that is going to have a much smaller input frame and thus makes it hard/near impossible to CH confirm.
Random Q having jumped on again... but.. is getting imcf after a (double direction)A+B fluky or does it only work on one side or is it character dependent or what? I've always wondered. Its not a matter of my imcf coming out.. its a matter of the imcf just.. not hitting..lol.
I haven't played much at all over the last 2 months, but I jumped on really quick to give a fair-ish response.
if you mean iMCF first.. then...uhh..lol.
if you mean imcf first and then the 66A+B hits with him still standing... that one does take a lot of anticipation from my 2 min jump on SC to check.
That being said... .. why would you want to go for that afterwards? You can't hit with imcf again cuz you already used the CH stun properties in that combo....
That being said... I said in general..lol. There is surely going to be at least 1 link (however useless as that one seems to me) that is going to have a much smaller input frame and thus makes it hard/near impossible to CH confirm.
Random Q having jumped on again... but.. is getting imcf after a (double direction)A+B fluky or does it only work on one side or is it character dependent or what? I've always wondered. Its not a matter of my imcf coming out.. its a matter of the imcf just.. not hitting..lol.