SG Damage Ranking for all characters

eltoshan said:
copy and pasted from the old tier thread, only useful moves.

3B breaks in 10, safe mid launcher that guarantees umbrella on hit.
6B breaks in 13, safe mid that creates space. > the less usefull.
bA breaks in 15, very hard to punish for most of the cast at tip range, TC tracking mid.
4B breaks in 13, I get this occasionally when I mess up 214B (dumb, I know).
9B breaks in 10, safe.
4K breaks in 14, +0~+2 on block, high.
1K and 9K break in 16, 1K is TC and creates spacing, 9K is TJ with minor TC (can be punished by AA of some characters).
2A+B breaks in 11, low that combos into 22A+BA, -16 but safe against some characters and minor punishment (meaning NH 2K which is -6 on hit) against others.
B+K breaks in 10, -14 on block but opponent is in FC.
66A breaks in 15, safe step killing long range move that's i18.
11A breaks in 14, -16 on block, super TC, step killer, + on NH, 75 damage on CH.
11B breaks in 10, -6 on block, opponent in FC, combo on hit.
66B+K breaks in 10, safe TC long range mid, reduces/creates spacing.
44B+K breaks in 15, i14 punisher, -16 on block but pushes back (hard to punish against some character, ex : Kilik).

Basically most of her really useful moves rape the gauge. Not to mention her less useful moves like ag:B break in 8, which pretty much means a single ag:B can break the gauge when they are flashing red. The main point is that even if her moves are blocked, the opponent are still taking lots of SG damage, and if they get hit it means big damage or mix ups.
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A lot of that makes sense, but her staple moves 33B, umbrella, and most of her JFs don't do anything to the soul gauge. I just don't see how it's better people like Zas, Amy, or even Lizzy.
 
Tiamat said:
I got a question. Most moves with good CF ability are linear (vader 4B for example). My question is, who has strong damage CF moves that track step well?
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Setsuka's 66A, 11A, and bA are strong anti-steps, break in 15, 14, and 15 respectively. All of them are very spammable at mid-long range.

Qshimitsu said:
A lot of that makes sense, but her staple moves 33B, umbrella, and most of her JFs don't do anything to the soul gauge. I just don't see how it's better people like Zas, Amy, or even Lizzy.
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I get where you are coming from, but I don't really consider 33B a staple in high level play, attentive players will step G that. 33B is really just there to CH people out of retreating moves. Umbrella actually breaks in 15, but I didn't list it because it really shouldn't get blocked. If 1B:B did soul gauge damage Setsuka would be broken, so its actually a good thing that Namco balanced it out.

It is completely feasible to play a SG/damage balanced setsuka, considering moves like B+K, 3B, and 11A are so strong.
 
Hot_Rod_Dave said:
your ignorance always makes me chuckle
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I meant the animations...

Seriously I'm opinionated as hell but EVERYTHING i type pretty much has supporting evidence or some validity and is pretty insightful...don't see why i need to be stalked around the forums with those comments.
 
I don't know if MAxi should be as high as he is, I always feel like I really have to go out of my way to get a CF

Like instead of going to RCville I take a right at PSL1 and drive into BLburg
 
DrHobo said:
I don't know if MAxi should be as high as he is, I always feel like I really have to go out of my way to get a CF

Like instead of going to RCville I take a right at PSL1 and drive into BLburg
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He needs to be higher actually. He has many sub 13s, and his neutrals are generally safe and do good gauge damage.
 
DrHobo said:
I don't know if MAxi should be as high as he is, I always feel like I really have to go out of my way to get a CF

Like instead of going to RCville I take a right at PSL1 and drive into BLburg
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he can do decent SG damage, but going into loops makes hitting the A+B+K+G CF command risky, as he could crush you but continue with another loop attack unintentionally
 
That's more human error, than a Maxi problem :/ i think default settings have CF as one button on pads. I should think it's allowable in tourneys
 
I knew what you meant right away Ivyfanboy, that's why I didn't say anything, some people need to take reading comprehension 101.....

Though I'm still not convinced of Maxi being a good CFer, saying he's bad at it because of his constant loops is like saying Raphael can't CF because he's constantly in prep....it doesn't hold up.

Ruiner
 
Tiamat said:
I got a question. Most moves with good CF ability are linear (vader 4B for example). My question is, who has strong damage CF moves that track step well?
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Mitsurugi 66A+B... 66A... 236B_... B6
Setsuka 66B+K... B+K... 66A...
Siegfried 88B...

And many more, but the best CF character its the one who can push you to the point when you can't do anything than just block... live Voldo or Lizardman oh and Ivy, and at last Setsuka...

-Stryker-
 
if we are talking practicality and feasibility the top should be:

1.voldo

2.mina

3.yun

4.raph

-sig shouldn't be up there unless were talking about on paper

because any idiot should be able to step chief hold

-yun on paper should be higher then mina

but if people block against yun hes eating dmg because hes super unsafe

i dont know if its worth it with yun because hes so unsafe
 
BelovedChild said:
I knew what you meant right away Ivyfanboy, that's why I didn't say anything, some people need to take reading comprehension 101.....

Though I'm still not convinced of Maxi being a good CFer, saying he's bad at it because of his constant loops is like saying Raphael can't CF because he's constantly in prep....it doesn't hold up.

Ruiner
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Actually you "could" wait out either prep or VE to go to neutral, and then hit the CF command.

For some loops, it feels that it takes too long to go return to neutral, or that I really need to hitcheck better, as i've inputting a 2 hit loop and the first one soul crushes ...
 
X should definitely be higher than 19.
4A+B breaks the SG in 5.5 hits, its super safe pushes back on block.
4B,B breaks in about 5.5 hits also, and +0 on block.
66BB break in 6 hits -6 on block.
3B+k breaks in 7 hits, it TC's pushes back and is safe
SXS B(Buffed) breaks in 7 hits +20 on block
FC 3B breaks in 10 hits, safe launcher, pushes back, hits grounded
1B+k evades all verticals, safe on block breaks in 10 hits.
44AA breaks in 10 hits +3 on block.
44B Tc's, evades, breaks SG in 9 hits.
 
All those moves are linear as hell and half of those the 2nd hit can be GI'd. Online those may work really well but not offline.
 
angelic_fragment said:
if we are talking practicality and feasibility the top should be:

1.voldo

2.mina

3.yun

4.raph

-sig shouldn't be up there unless were talking about on paper

because any idiot should be able to step chief hold

-yun on paper should be higher then mina

but if people block against yun hes eating dmg because hes super unsafe

i dont know if its worth it with yun because hes so unsafe
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Just about everything Siegfried has rapes the soul gauge, not just SCH B.
 
thugish_pond said:
All those moves are linear as hell and half of those the 2nd hit can be GI'd. Online those may work really well but not offline.
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And sophi's 4b+k, 66b, 3b isnt? what about everything Raph has? Voldo's 3BB? With that train of thought the top 5 listed so far should be removed. And if someone is stupid enough to Gi the 2nd hit of X's strings instead of SS'ing them, then they will eat a SXS transition, and even if they do SS SXS A will also take care of that. You make it seem like people just 8wr, and SS all match long, and doing so against X will cost them the match and fast. Im not saying X should be at the top of the list, but listing her at 19 is a bit low. The way I play X I train my opponent not to side step, and I play both on and offline.
 
Funny thing i consider astaroth a char that easy to get Cf with people dont wanan get hit by astaroth so they block forever till next thing ya know you soul gage says nope fuck it im braking and your gonna die lol.
 
alexqd3 said:
And sophi's 4b+k, 66b, 3b isnt? what about everything Raph has? Voldo's 3BB? With that train of thought the top 5 listed so far should be removed. And if someone is stupid enough to Gi the 2nd hit of X's strings instead of SS'ing them, then they will eat a SXS transition, and even if they do SS SXS A will also take care of that. You make it seem like people just 8wr, and SS all match long, and doing so against X will cost them the match and fast. Im not saying X should be at the top of the list, but listing her at 19 is a bit low. The way I play X I train my opponent not to side step, and I play both on and offline.
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How many times do you do 4A+B / 4BB / 66BB if it didnt do any SG (well actually you use 4A+B for he aGI). The SXS transitions do make it possible to complete strings though, and i can see 44B being used a lot.

I can only speak for raph, but most of this SG raping moves are moves he'd use regardless.
 
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